As we experienced in class, the flag burning topic is controversial. I'd like to use this blog entry to continue the discussion.
The central issue in these cases, I think, is whether the government can punish someone for desecrating the flag. The U.S. Supreme Court said no, the government cannot outlaw the expressions of ideas (in this case, symbolic speech) simply because it disagrees with the content of speech.
That's the way things stand now. With a Democratic president and a Democratic Congress, it's doubtful that there will be any serious efforts to amend the Constitution on this issue any time soon.
So, what do you think? Are these cases rightly decided? Do you agree or disagree with the court's ruling?
Please free to express your opinion on these questions in the comments section below. While you should feel free to express your opinion, regardless of what it may be, I do ask that you be respectful to other people and their opinions.
I look forward to hearing your perspectives.
33 comments:
I think that the act of burning the American flag is only going to makes a strong statement that the burner has hate for America as a country. Whether that is their true feelings or not, as a person of this country it is an unsettling sight. However as a country that is so proud to be as free as we are I don't think that the act should be outlawed.
(TTH 1230) Hate is a strong word to use for a person who burns the american flag. In the chapter there was a discussion about a citizen who burned the U.S. flag. It wasn't because he hated his country, it was because the flag represented the american government and the administration that had been running the country. It was a disagreement with policy, with how america was being run. Therefore, it is an expression of free speech. Johnson didn't hate his country, he may have felt that what the flag represented was no more and so the flag had lost all meaning. That's just an idea, it is in no way an absolute, but i believe that if a flag is to be burned there needs to be some authenticity behind the reasoning. It shouldn't be a frivilous act that is done because it is such a controversial action.
I agree in with the Supreme Court in principle and I am glad that they are dedicated to upholding the First Amendment. I do not agree with flag burning in practice, though. I think there are things that are "legal" but that doesn't make them right. I would not mind if the Supreme Court had ruled differently because I think you can freely speak and have your opinion but it is not ok to destroy the symbol of our country. If you feel that strongly to publicly decimate all that our country stands for, then don't live here!
While flag burning is extremely unpatriotic, as a nation we shouldn't criminalize it. In my opinion, this country has gotten to politically correct with just about everything. I'm sickened with how people can sue for claiming they've been emotionally harmed. Grow some skin, America.
Don't Listen to Lance, He is a liberal:)
A flag is a symbol, and who ever burns this symbol, should be thrown to jail. Do you know why terrorists burn the U.S flag ? because they hate America and wish for its destruction. There should be some limitations in related to the freedom of speech - it should not be absolute, especially if it's a matter of national security .
Example of a flag Amendment :
"Nobody shall use the state flag in public unless:
The flag is done as described and drawn in the proclamation about the flag of the State of Israel, and in the dimensions specified in it, or in other dimensions but in the same ratio as the flags mentioned in the said proclamation.
The flag is in such a condition which allows a honourable display.
The flag is used in a place, time, circumstances and form which do not imply an abuse of the flag.
A legally-made flag can be used to cover the coffin of a deceased whose funeral is handled by the state or the Israel Defence Forces."
I agree with most in this situation. While it is apparent that most people disagree with the burning of the U.S. flag and find it highly offensive, this man was trying to get a point across and should not be looked at as a criminal, especially if no one was in harm's way for the duration of his actions.
As a point of conjecture, this man might have tried many times to get his point across by using other means of communication and he could have been ignored. The flag burning incident could have been his last ditch effort to be heard, and it worked.
By giving the decision they did, the court maintained the foundation that this country was built on by giving way to the desecration of our most sacred symbol. What a vicious circle!
While I do think that flag burning is extremely offensive, I agree with the court rulings on these cases. As long as the individuals burning the flag aren't causing harm to anyone else or anyone else's property, then I don't think they can be punished for it.
If the court made the burning of the flag illegal then I fear that many other First Amendment rights might be in danger. If the government decides that they can silence that sort of symbolic speech, then who knows what they will decide they can censor next.
I am just glad that the USSC actually protected a minority stand in this case, even though the majority of society was in opposition. That is how policy is formed: majority rule. I don't wish to stray from topic, so let me just add one more thing, as far as the "...then don't live here!" comment, why don't all of the people with minority viewpoints just move to another country so that the majority can live happily ever after without opposition. Utopia at last!!! In my opinion, minorities are the checks & balances on the majority.
Lauren Miller T/Th (9:30)- It is evident that the flag burning topic is very controversial. I know my opinions in class seemed to have been leaning toward one side of the spectrum . However, after sitting down and really thinking about the topic I see that both sides prove strong points.
When I think of the United States flag burning, the first thing that pops into my head are the people I see on CNN from other countries burning our flag with so much hatred toward our country. This is why it was so hard for me to understand how most people think that it is alright to do such an un patriotic thing.
However, I also realize that it takes a greater country to allow freedom of speech such as this. We are able to do things most people would be killed for doing. We must remember that during these trying times it is hard to see things such as this because we need to focus on unity as a country.
Denise Mamo TTH 9:30
I definitely agree with the Supreme Court's ruling. One of the greatest things about this country is that we the citizens actually have a voice, and we can use it in just about any way that we feel it necessary.
I must say that the burning of any flag does seem like low blow. If it were me, I'd try to think of a more creative way to protest.
Kristen Williams TH 12:30
The thing that surprised me the most about the flag burning discussion is that it was a 5-4 vote. I would have expected that all the justices would agree that it is, in fact, a form of free speech.
I agree with students who said that they would not do it themselves. But just because I don't personally wish to burn a flag does not mean it should not be punishable by law.
The key issue is that it is a public speech forum and that right should be protected. If flag-burning were to be found unconstitutional, it would open the door for other petty laws to be enstated.
(T/TH 9:30)
I agree with the ruling of the court and am glad that they lived up to the 1st amendment rights of the indiviual, although I most definitely feel that burning the American flag(a symbol of our great nation) is extremely disrespectful. If you don't like our country or what we stand for, then get the hell out.
I can't answer this blog without first saying that Johnson's act was completely inconsiderate and ignorant.
Having said that--of course the Supreme Court made the right decision. Although personally I would rather see anyone who burns our flag punished, I understand that this train of thought is equally ignorant. Above all, the first amendment must be protected even if this means giving people the right to burn a symbol that millions of Americans have died to preserve.
Amy Lane T-TH 12:30
I see that most agree with the Supreme Court's decision.
As much freedom as our country is offered, I cannot find myself to agree with the court. It's understandable to want to express how you feel towards the govt. however there are plenty of other ways to do so.
The first thing that popped in my head in class was my grandfathers funeral. As a veteran, his funeral took place at Fort Sam in San Antonio where a military service was performed. I remembered how many times the men folded the American flag and ever so gently placed it on his casket. I CANNOT even imagine someone burning it out of anger for a president. It is a precious symbol to our country and those who have served.
This is not me being "sensitive" (as some classmates have indicated) but more of a respect issue. Someone fought for that freedom we talk about so often.
I agree, again, with most in this case. I hate that someone can get away with burning a flag, but also see why there's no way they should not have the right to do so as it is a symbol.
The thing I find most interesting is how close the court came to this whole situation going in the complete opposite direction. What would have happened if that 5-4 decision had gone for banning the burning of the flag?? It very easily could have. And how would our opinions change because of that? I mean it is ingrained in my head, as I think much of America, that we have the right to do something like this. I think a lot of that has to do with the very first 5-4 decision. But, if the court had ruled the opposite, would it be ingrained in us that it's not right and ultimately illegal to do so?? Would I be arguing that view instead of the one I have now? I would hope not, but I have a feeling current views would have drastically changed had it been the other way around.
T-th 9:30
I for sure agree with what the court ruled. I believe it is important that we follow the first amendment. Like someone said in class. If we make some regulations on the first amendment such as punishment for burning the flag, we will begin to make all kinds of regulations and eventually loose our freedom that the first amendment holds. I do not agree with, but in the end I think the right decision was made.
I grew up a military brat. My Father recently retired from the Marine Corps after 24 years of service. When I lived on the military base in Arizona, it was free to go to the movies if you showed your military I.D. upon entry. Before each film, the entire theater would stand at attention while looking at video of a waving American flag accompanied by the National Anthem.
It's not about being too sensitive, it's an issue of respect. If I ever saw anyone burning an American flag, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them what I thought about it. If you're fed up with the current administration or a certain politician, burning the American flag is not the way to protest. In my eyes, when you burn the flag, you burn everything it stands for, and if you're burning everything America stands for, then why are you here?
That being said, I also see the point that outlawing the act would put a limitation on the very freedom the flag represents. I wouldn't want the government getting carried away in the least because I enjoy my freedom and my rights.
Matthew Champion (T/Th 12:30-1:50)
I think this situation shows us that we put too much meaning in an icon. The flag is a symbol for the country and what we believe in, not the country itself. In this instance, why can we have keychains of the Statue of Liberty, which get destroyed the minute you use them? This would be a desecration of a US symbol. What is the difference? Why is one symbol more important that another? Hypocrisy. If I can destroy the Stature of Liberty, I can just as well destroy the flag, whether in protest or not. Scratch that, now instead of flag burning at my protests, I am going to burn Lady Liberty herself - would that get me the same reaction?
Jacob Glover (M W)
I'm just glad we live in a country where we have the right to speak freely. Although burning the American flag may have been a strange way to make his point, without Johnson's "symbolic speech" we would not have the chance to put our rights to the test. We probably wouldn't even be able to comment our open/ free/ expressions on this blog if it wasn't for the right of free speech. Burning the flag was obviously an act that made itself known in history books. Otherwise, this challenge to the First Amendment would have never occurred and Mr. Johnson would be just another face in the crowd.
Silvia Irizarry T&TH 9:30am
As I said in class during that discussion I do believe there are other ways in proving a point other than burning a flag...BUT that is someone's right to do so. I find it offensive, but the U.S Supreme Court is right on this one. It's nice to know that our system is working even in offensive cases like this.
It seems like most people feel the same way about this topic. I agree that it good for the supreme court to uphold the rights of the individual because if they were to get rid of the freedom of expression who knows what would be next. However, the flag is a symbol of our nation and is probably the most unpatriotic thing you could do. I dont think that burning a flag is appropriate or right but it is good that our justice system made the decision to uphold our rights.
I think that the burning of the flag was an extreme gesture but I do believe he has the right to do so. I think he chose the gesture of burning the flag to get his point across because he thought that if he were to speak out he would be arrested for his use of words or didn't want to be misunderstood in what he was trying to get across to the government. It is a good ruling by the court and I agree with it because free speech has too many restrictions.
Will Staney TTH-12:30
Lest anyone think I'm a big fan of flag burning, let me make this clear: it absolutely disgusts me. I love America and mom and apple pie.
However, what I love more than a symbol on a piece of cloth is the idea of liberty and the value of freedom of speech. I like the idea that any citizen can criticize any person in power. I like the idea that idea that bold, provocative statements are encouraged and stupid, offensive opinions are tolerated.
Is it offensive conduct?
Absolutely. But if we only protect the warm fuzzy feelgood speech while criminalizing the speech we find offensive, we make a mockery out of the ideals America was founded on.
Besides, what harm is done from burning a flag? Is America so weak and filled with low self-esteem that burning her flag will hurt her feelings? Will burning a flag bring down our society? America believes so much in liberty that she should proudly allow her people to make the most offensive statements about her.
Furthermore, how much does the flag-burning amendment cover? If I print a flag on a piece of paper and burn that, am I prosecuted? It is the same exact statement. What if I make a close replica of a flag, say 49 stars and 12 stripes, and burn that? How about an exact flag replica, but with a green-white-and-purple color scheme?
And what about the flags that are so tattered or soiled that they are supposed to be burned, according to US Flag Code?
John Seidner T-Th 9:30am
These cases have been decided upon properly by the court. The men and women who have died in the various wars throughout the history of our country have done so to protect our freedoms at home and this is one of the more extreme, but none the less important freedoms that is protected. Sadly some politicians on both sides decide to hijack the issue for political points with voters, rather then realizing that free speech does not always mean the only free speech that you in particular enjoy or want to see used.
Sajen Claxton-Hernandez
MW 2PM
I believe that the expression should go uncharged. As for hazardous fire in a public place, that's a different charge. But solely speaking about expression, we should have the freedom. I personally would never do that, nor do I want to see people do that, but that's what makes this country so great and unique.
We have the choice to vote our officials. We have the choice not to vote at all. We have the choice to say the pledge in schools. We have the choice not to say the pledge in schools. We have the choice to raise the flag proud. We have the choice to burn it if we want.
America is about freedom. This dude burns a flag that stands for freedom. The USSC gives him the freedom to do so. That's how free it is. If the USSC took that freedom away, then it sort of reflects what the founders fought against; The idea that the people can't criticize the leaders.
I would not support someone who chose to desecrate the American flag. I believe there are alternative, less unpatriotic ways to take a stand or prove a point. However, I agree with the USSC ruling for the simple fact that if a law was made against flag burning, what else would there be a law made against?
Mackenzie Smith MW 2pm
Someone in my class made the comment of why didn't the guy just hold up a sign protesting Reagan. My thoughts on that are a sign is easy to ignore, the burning of the American flag on the other hand is not. No matter which a person feels they can't ignore that he had something to say. I believe he had the right to free expression.
Allen Reed TTH 9:30
I have seen American flag thongs, wind pants, bow ties, tattoos, etc. etc. that "desecrate" our flag much more so than burning it.
Flag burning is a freedom of expression and once you start limiting freedom of expressions, where do you stop? What defines desecration? It's a slippery slope.
That being said, I think the people who are offended by this topic should start with the guy wearing the American flag bib at their GOP luncheon and worry less about what the hippies and anarchists do.
I don't like the fact that burning a flag is protected by the first amendment. A flag represents many values for countries. Values such as peace, unity, freedom, among others. But if the law says you're protected, what can you do about it? In México, if you even think about doing something to the flag, "authorities" first beat you up, put you in jail, beat you up again, fine you and finally another beating. So, you wont forget the flag is sacred. Well, that's what I've heard. Also, citizens are not allowed to use the Mexican flag in clothing.
If you live in America, you should not burn the flag. Although this is a 'free' country, and people can express their feelings and opinions, there should be set limitations on what a person can and cannot do. The American Flag is a strong representation of this great country, and I was to see someone burning a flag, i would hope something would be done about it. Its crazy that someone would burn a flag that represents your contry.
I'm in a dilemma with this issue. I am alll for freedom of expression and pro-choice, but then again I feel that the way Johnson went about trying to get attention was very unethical. Yes, we are in a free country but that's why we are very unhealthy in so many ways because there is too much freedom. I've done some activism work on reproductive rights, so for me it is unbelievable how government won't fund comprehensive sex education because they think it is immoral to advocate anything else that isn't abstinence but yet burning a flag to get a point across is okay? ¡Qué locura! ¡Están jodidos!
Laura Coria T H 12:30
I have to agree with Lauris, I am all for freedom of expression. However, while I hate to contradict myself, I do not agree with the Supreme Court's decision in this matter. In my opinion, if you can demolish our country's symbol, than your right to free speech should also go up in flames.
As I brought up in class discussion, I feel like it's a hate crime, just as burning a cross in someone's front yard would be. I did not, however, know at that time that the same principle of symbolic speech applied in the situation of burning crosses. I think that our country is a bit too lenient at times. I understand rights, but what happened to our morals? Yes, everyone is entitled to their own opinions but if you are bold enough to hurt someone else's pursuit to happiness, shouldn't there be a punishment for your actions in return?
Jessica Elmore T/TH 9:30
I hate to side with someone who burned an American flag but i do agree with the Supreme Courts decision. :/
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