So far this summer session, we've examined a few cases that involved the Vietnam War in the 1960s and 1970s: New York Times v. United States and United States v. O'Brien. In Chapter 3, we'll discuss Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District and Cohen v. California.
Our campus also involved political protest in those tumultuous times.
Ten students at Southwest Texas State University took part in a protest
on campus, but were suspended and expelled from the university.
Check out this brief video by The University Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygdK1awjMA#t=15
Also, listen to this NPR report broadcast on Oct. 28, 2002, in which two of the San Marcos Ten were interviewed: http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=1131946&m=131946
After you watch and listen to this reports, return here and add a
comment with your reaction. Also, consider whether there are any causes
-- political, environmental, social or otherwise -- that would motivate you
to take part in a protest.
Please remember to include your first name, last name initial, and your class (Summer I).
43 comments:
While I am the type to typically walk right on by whatever commotion is taking place at the stallion, I find it quite unsettling that an event such as that took place at the school that I hold so near and dear to my heart and find it very disappointing. I would like to think of Texas State as a place that not only encourages its students to stand up for what they believe in, but more importantly I would hope that the school I love so much would be willing to stand up for me and stand behind me and my rights, no matter what that topic might be.
Lauren C.
Summer I
The First Amendment is such a hard thing for any one person to truly interpret the terms. Especially when the government comes up with laws that disregard the First Amendment for certain time periods. I found it fascinating that it was okay not just to expel the 10 students, but to drop their GPA to zero. That seems a little extreme to me. It's crazy how something so historic took place right in the quad where I would be rushing to get to my next class. I probably would have taken part in the protest just to have some good stories and memories to tell my future family. I could see myself joining without even realizing it thinking that someone died or something. After all to walk through campus and see such a demonstration would probably make you feel like the oddball if you just ran through it. I also could see why guys in particular would choose not to participate since college was the only way to escape the draft back in those days.
Kaitlyn P.
Summer 1
I wasn't aware of this case before now, and I'm disappointed in my university for the first time. Given that this was a non-violet, peaceful protest I'm shocked that the university came down so heavily on theses students, going as far to expel, drop their GPA to zero and absolve their earned college credits. This doesn't seem constitutional to me on any level, especially since we're a public university. Also, given the fact that the ruling was upheld based on the ruling that "they interfered with the free-flow of the education process" not due to their personal actions, but by the interference caused by the crowd as a result. I believe that our contemporary practice would hold the crowd/individuals responsible - not the people acting under their first amendment right to peaceably protest. This is truly a blight on the university's history (and, I suspect, due to our "association" with LBJ - which I will never condone or understand).
I was really shocked to hear that this was something that happened in San Marcos because I usually think of San Marcos as such a peaceful and just place. I wish I understood the thought process behind the administrators decision to drop their GPA to a zero. The hard work the students completed through their college career shouldn't be undermined just because of a peaceful protest. I don't think this would happen today however, which is good news. I remember hearing about Occupy Wallstreet protests on the Texas State campus in 2012 when I was attending San Marcos high school. I feel more confident that our school would handle a situation like this much more fairly today.
Sydney H.
Summer 1
I agree on both sides. Its unfortunate that we have to jump through hoops to exercise our rights to free speech but these are the guidelines we have to follow to create a democracy with privileges. The current events of the 60's created so much tension that I understand the administration side but I also understand the sense of urgency of the students. Being a male it would have been a catch-22 to protest the war because if I was expelled then I would be considered for the draft and what would have been the point of the protest.
Robert Fraga
Summer I
Hearing about this protest for the first time is crazy to me. I feel like more of our students here at Texas State University should be educated on this just to learn more about our school's history. It is so shocking to me that the university would drop down these student's GPAs to a zero. I do not think that is fair at all no matter what those students believe in. I know there are consequences for what they did, but that is just not right. I am very thankful that things have changed over time and I would hope that the university would handle the situation differently today. I applaud to those students who stood up for what they believed in and to have so much courage. I do not know what I would have done back then whether to protest or to not. We all think we know what we would do in that situation, but in reality you do not know how you will react in a situation like that especially in that time period with everything that was going on at that time.
Sandy N.
Summer 1
I don't agree with what the University did to those students who were speaking freely about what they believed in. I don't like the feeling of possibly losing all my credits for sharing things that I believe in. I am not the person that would stand around and listen or even be the one talking out to everyone, but it doesn't bother be when I see people standing around listening to the guy who does speak freely. The other thing that bothers me with this case, is that they kicked out those students for disrupting the learning environment because it was getting loud, not because of the actual free speaking part. It blows my mind that they would be able to take away everything from those 10 people.
Ashleigh D.
Summer 1
It's not surprising to me that some students would be protesting the war (my mom protested against the war back then, too, when she was in her 20's), but what is surprising to me is that the University had the authority to expel these students AND drop their GPA's to zero. That sounds absurd to me! I understand that perhaps the student's display of non-violent protesting might cause a hindrance in learning, especially if onlookers were getting rowdy and causing a disruption in nearby classrooms, but I don't think the University had the right to drop the their GPA's. I believe that in an educational setting, it's the right of the students to be able to express their differences in opinions because that sparks conversation and growth, and what better place than in a University where we are here to learn.
Abigail N.
Summer 1
I can't believe our university was willing to go that far, to expel these 10 students just for speaking their mind... Plus lowering their GPA's to zero? All of this for a peaceful protest about war, I thought universities were supposed to help promote and provide growth, challenging topics and thought. We should all have the right to express our personal opinion, especially on a college campus. This is not a moment Texas State should be proud of. However, I'm still proud of my university. Everyone makes mistakes and tends to go overboard, its just unfortunate that this happened to Texas State and the 10 students.
***Usually I'll stand around these kinds of protests or speakers if I have some down time on campus, its interesting to hear what my fellow students have to say on different topics.
Samuel Z. Rubbelke
Summer I
It was very disappointing to learn that our school had discouraged and abridged these students' first amendment rights. I know we have the stallions, but I feel like because this is a public university students should be allowed to speak their minds any where on campus as long as they are not disrupting the learning process.
Brittany Baig
Summer 1
I had no clue that the San Marcos Ten was a thing. It is slightly saddening to know that the university I go to, that is a public university, is a "yellow light" campus. The comment that striked me the most was the comment about the man that was a part of the 10 people that were expelled. He stated that he finally returned to Southwest Texas State, but that a "computer error" caused him to not be able to walk across the stage to graduate and the diploma would just be mailed to him. There are easily thoughts on both sides of this issue that I have, so I would actually love to research the story more. It is very interesting to me!
Alyssa B.
Summer 1 Class
Dieuxvan (Anna) Nguyen
Summer 1 Class
How can our government officials tell us we have "Free Speech," but have strict regulations regarding the first amendment. Is it really "free"? If Texas State has been free for speech since 1911, how come this incident happened to the protester? I can't believe that the protesters were speaking up for what they believed in and the school officials banned them from the university. I am appreciative of what generation I live in right now. During this era, people are protesting and standing up for what they believe in. Within the last two years, I had started a petition and rallied at the very same spot, the Stallion. Without even thinking about it, no school officials every tried to stop us. In fact, I have pass the Stallion many times where there has been multiple protest but how come no one ever got suspended? Government and school officials always confuse me with their wishy washy rules.
I had no idea about the Texas State 10. saddened me the most was that David went back and got his Bachelor's and they didn't call his name so he didn't get to walk. Seems pretty low to me, I don't believe that it was a glitch. I'm just grateful that the times have changed and that they continue to do so. I would definitely protest any political, environmental or social cause that moved me enough to do so.
Tea M.
Summer 1 Class
I can't say that I agree with the actions the University took on the students but I don't necessarily disagree. I'm definitely one to be annoyed when I see abortion protest on campus. That doesn't mean I am for abortion because I am 100% against it, but the images disturb me greatly. That is not something I was to see when I walk to class. Getting the point across is one thing but pushing the boundaries is another.
Makensie L. Hinkle
Summer 1 Class
Its extremely disheartening to know that an event like this took place on the campus I call home. To completely expel someone and take away all their college credits, seems to be taking it a bit far. The Vietnam war was extremely divisive so I can understand why the administration would be against anti-war sentiments, but to punish someone that extremely for expressing the 1st amendment is unconstitutional. It would of been a much better end to the story had this case been appealed to the USSC, but that's the world we live in.
Steven P
Summer 1 Class
With this being the first time I have ever heard about the Texas State 10 I was seriously shocked. I truly don't agree with the University and the action they took against those students, but a couple of the first amendment cases we've gone over in class I haven't agreed with either. I think the University took it way too far with the dropping of their GPA and expelling them and even saying that the "computer" missed that guys name so he couldn't walk the stage when he finally came back and completed college. They weren't bothering anyone.
Katrina J.
Summer 1
I'll be the first to say how much I love my campus. The Texas State I know embraces students rights to peacefully demonstrate, and share beliefs. I honestly had no idea about this incident, nor do I expect them to announce it at new student orientation. However, this is a important issue, we can't tell students and visitors that this is our free speech zone with a history like this. I understand that times and ideologies change. Like the cases in class, as the old guard starts to retire, new progressive leadership takes over. As for me, I honestly don't know what I would protest. I have marched for important social issues before and showed solidarity for different groups. But I guess I have yet to come across a cause worthy enough to risk everything.
Andrew P.
Summer 1
Wow, man. Stop the war, man!
I am shocked that these students got suspended and had their GPA's dropped to zero, with no remaining credits left... It was a public place, and the dean of student's justification was that "there might be a disruption caused by this". It was a silent protest, and I think the students were in the right. I would hope that something like this won't happen again here at Texas State.
The general "hoorah" making the noise is what the judge also justified with... This is wild! wish it would have made it all the way to the supreme court.
I would definitely participate in a protest, silent or otherwise, fi there were to be another draft imposed. Call me a woosy, but I simply would be one of those guys that flees to Canada. Sorry, brother. I respect our soldiers but even the thought of going to war simply scares the fuck out of me!
John W - Summer I
Christybeth Cabrera- Summer I
First, I can't believe i've never heard of this taking place at our University. One of the reasons I came here was because I loved how open people are! You would think the University would have taken a different course of action and not have taken students right of free speech. I get disrupting free flow of educational process, but to expel them for advocating their beliefs? I personally think I would have participated, I am a firm believer in standing up for what you believe in. It is hard to say if I would have stayed till the end with the other ten but I would have been on their side.
I'm disappointed in Texas State for having expelled these students for having a peaceful protest. While there are many causes I support, I would have to feel strongly to protest. I often show my support through other methods, such as social media and blog posts.
Bridgette E., Summer I
Summer 1
Emerald Salinas
Before this blog post I was completely unaware of this court case ever taking place. I find it odd that for a university that prides itself on freedom of speech, that this case isn't discussed more often. The students that stood up for their rights should have had some kind of compensation instead of every hour they had completed being revoked.
I have never heard of this happening at Texas State and I'm pretty disappointed it did. Those students were just standing up for what they believed in. If a riot or something broke out and got out of hand, I could understand punishments, but nothing happened. It was a silent protest and I feel the school went too far with dropping their GPA's to zero and suspending them. To be honest, I'm not one to participate in a protest. However, if a topic I have strong opinions about gets brought up in a conversation, I will stand up for it if need be.
Shelby S.
Summer 1
It's quite sad to me that the 10 students had their GPAs dropped to zero and had all of their course credits taken away. Like most of the other comments I am reading, I was not aware that this had happened right here at Texas State. If I would have been attending the school during this time, I believe that I would have joined in on the protest. Standing up for the things I believe in is very important to me.
The thing I liked the most was the man who served in Vietnam and then came back to protest after the fact.
Casey Sauceda Summer- session 1 M-F
Ive never heard of the san marcos 10 before and i cant believe that this event occured in San Marcos. I couldnt imagine having my gpa erased and being denied my 1st amendment right. If i was attending the universitybduring that time and witnessed this occur i most likely would of started a campus wide protest to help those ten students. After reading other students comments im glad im not the only person that has never heard of this event happening before.
Learda Shkurti Summer- session 1 M-F
During Orientation they talked so highly of the Stallions, and the designated free-speech area. I didn't think much of it when I was a freshman, believing it was our right to have free speech everywhere, and thinking no one would use that area. But over the past 4 years, I've seen campaigns, protests, religious fanatics, speeches and a lot more. That area has been a hot-spot for so many issues in it's time.
Listening and watching this story about the peaceful protest, has made me realize those protesters made it possible for us to do these things today.
They demanded a voice, a say in their world, and I think that's what Texas State teaches now.
Those students went about everything in the most organized and peaceful way possible. If there was just one student who became angry or violent, it would have become a different and less powerful story.
After listening and watching the reports, I was shocked that the students at the time protested, and for good reasoning. They protested and stood up for what they believed and they stood up for their rights. I necessarily cannot think of a cause that would motivate me to be apart of a protest, because in my opinion, I feel someone will believe what they want to believe regardless of what is being thought or said. Everyone is entitled to their own rights, opinions and beliefs.
Taylor Torbert
MC4301 Summer I
After hearing the reports, I would probably love to peacefully protest for our basic American rights; however, taking away my college credentials would be way too detrimental to me. I'd rather get a degree, become established and successful and then fight for what I believe in, because honestly that's when your voice is taken more seriously (sadly).
Vianei G (SSI)
I've always seen San Marcos as this serene and safe place where anyone can speak to each other and express their opinions. But I never thought such an event would take place at Texas State. This university hold a place in my heart and I thought the university would have my back on anything. At times I do stand by the stallion to listen to other people's opinions on certain events but I don't ever participate in such protests. Reason being, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and decisions. So, I feel that if I protested, people would still be against me due to citizens/students having their own perspective on things. As a student, I would expect my school to have my back and guide me.
Undria W.- I am saddened of the fact that those ten students were stripped out of their education because they stood up for what they believe in. I truly believe in having the right to stand up for what I believe. I believe that justice should be served when it needs to be served, nothing else. I believe that the only we can say we truly utilize the First Amendment is to allow us to protest what we feel is wrong or against what we were brought up to believe in.
Kati Wallace-Summer1-
I am shocked that the dean of students would go that far. To me the students were in their rights to peacefully protest on the only spot on campus where free speech really matters. Having them expelled and stripped of GPA is insane for a silent movement. The Vietnam War was an issue most of the country disagreed with, considering this I feel like the punishment should have been lesser or the USSC should have over turned their verdict.
Samantha Vasquez
Summer 1
This is the first time i'm actually hearing about this and it's quite inspirational. The San Marcos 10 were standing for what they believed in and the fact that the disciplinary is pretty unsettling. It was a peaceful protest but thinking of the time period it's hard to get your opposing opinions about war out. The students knew that there was a price but didn't know that the school would go that far. If i had a strong opinion about a topic i would do the same and take the risk.
When I heard about this case, like everyone else, I was shocked. I was also shocked to know that my parents (who attended here in the 80's) also were not aware of this incident. It completely blows my mind that not only did the administration expel the students, but also dropped their GPA's to zero. I can see why schools were more strict about protesting (even peaceful ones) because it was the 60's and riots were just becoming a trend in those days, so the school wanted to shut it down as quickly as possible, and make an example of the students. BUT I did think the school handled it unjustly.
Now in this day in age I would have no worries holding a peaceful protest at the Stallions. I am a big advocate for racial and gender equality, so that's probably what I would protest about if I felt like it was an unjust occurrence at Texas State. But I don't really see it as one
Madison H.
Summer I
I find it completely appalling that nobody (not even I) has heard of this case. Everyone knows that the Stallions are where everyone can speak freely, where we can actually express our first amendment rights (just ONE being to peaceably assemble!). I think yes, it was okay for the university to show concern especially during war time, but it didn't give them the right to put all of the student's futures in danger because of it. I think it was unjust that the university not only expelled the 10 students, but made it virtually impossible for them to every have an education because they dropped their GPAs to zero. It was a huge violation of their first amendment rights, and the University should have just let them be.
I had never heard about the San Marcos Ten and I was so surprised in the severe consequences they suffered. I can understand from the administration a no tolerance policy when it came to protesting but we still have the right to exercise our first amendment. I don't agree with the Administration policy in dropping their GPA's to a zero. That alone is a bit of an over-do.
I personally would not want to participate in any social or political protest. I'm not very active in any issue but I'm open to the idea of protesting for something that I truly cared about.
-Mireydi M.
Summer I
I don't think the students should've gotten expelled and had their grades wiped from their records. The punishment definitely does not fit the "crime". They were practicing protest under the free speech amendment and should have been allowed to do so. Personally, I would definitely protest something that I feel passionate about and it's something that I think is wrong (such as racial and LGBT issues). As long as the way I'm going about it is legal and doesn't hurt anyone physically.
-Greg A.
Summer I
The San Marcos Ten had every right to protest on campus. Texas State is a public university and should allow any citizen to peacefully protest, no matter the subject. The administration took it way too far when they threatened the protesters with expulsion, as well as lowering their GPA's. I would attend a protest that deals with banning apartments from being developed on the San Marcos River.
Austin Y.
Summer I
Veronica R.
Summer 1
I am not really shocked I guess. More so because during the time of the Vietnam era and most of the cases that we have studied, saying anything against the war was not condoned. It is really unfortunate that this took place and that the students weren't allowed to excersize their freedom of speech, but as I said, during this time, it's not really a shock. The part that does shock me I guess is that they expelled them and dropped their GPA's down to zero and gave them no college credit at all. If they wanted to punish them, then fine, suspend them for a year, but to take something away that they earned before this protest is ridiculous. It wasn't even a violent protest. I would see the administrations punishment was fair had it been a violent protest.
As far as if there is anything that would cause me to protest as such, I have never really been involved in a protest, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't. Any unfair treatment, whether it be medical, benefits or etc. for vets or our military would definitely cause me to protest.
I applaud the San Marcos Ten for standing up for what they believed in, regardless of the consequences. That is something far easier said than done. To use the fact that their actions could possibly “disturb the educational process” in order to take away their constitutional rights is a disgrace to the university. What I also find hard to understand is their actions against Bill Cunningham. As the managerial editor, it is his duty to inform the public of events taking place in and around school and to ensure the stories put into print are accurate representations thereof. There was no excuse or defense for the firing of Cunningham due to a truthful story that was published. On top of this, the very same protesters faced possible induction into the armed forces if they were kicked out of school. These students had a lot to lose -much more than we have today- but they stood for what they believed in and no one can take that part of history away from them. Hopefully we all can learn from this to ensure history does not repeat itself in this manner.
Eihab S.
Summer 1
It's strange to me that stuff like this actually happened. It's sad to see something like a harmless protest get attacked like that. Can't believe that they even were able drop students GPAs to zero. The San Marcos Ten had the right to protest, the punishment that followed was absolutely unnecessary. I used to protest back in high school, but if I had to protest for cause right, it would be for LGBT rights.
Timothy Connor E.
Summer 1
Margie E. Summer I
"The San Marcos Ten" I believe were given an unfair punishment for using their First Amendments rights. They were warned, but the school officials went to the extreme as for stripping away their college credits and expelling them from the university. It just goes to show who has the upper hand when a public entity is being challenged. The courage the students showed planted a seed for future students to protest in the quod, and that still happens today.
After watching and listening to the reports, I was shocked and thought of all the times I completely ignored whatever was happening in the quad all together. The drastic measures taken by the University (dropping the 10 students' GPA to 0 and expelling them) on the students who were exercising their 1st Amendment rights shows that they thought it was a critical and damning event. I personally stand behind them and it saddens me that the University would infringe on our rights in such a way.
^^^ Jolynn G. Summer 2015
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