We've examined a few cases that involved the Vietnam War in the 1960s and 1970s: New York Times v. United States, United States v. O'Brien and Tinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District. We've also discussed cases involving free speech and students.
Our campus also involved political protest in those tumultuous times.
Ten students at Southwest Texas State University took part in a protest
on campus, but were suspended and expelled from the university.
Check out this brief video by The University Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygdK1awjMA#t=15
Also, listen to this NPR report broadcast from Oct. 23, 2001, in which two of the San Marcos Ten were interviewed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1131946
Consider that this interview was conducted less than two months after the terrorist attack on Sept. 11, 2001.
After you watch and listen to this reports, return here and add a
comment with your reaction. Also, consider whether there are any causes
-- political, environmental, social or otherwise -- that would motivate you
to take part in a protest.
Please remember to include your first name, last name initial.
56 comments:
Devin D. ---
I feel some type of way about the Vietnam War as it is. Having that a family member of mine being a Vietnam vet. Getting the facts from someone who has lived that war and seeing documentaries makes me shake my head. I'ma be honest, the person that I am would def. protest against the war if I was a student during that time, but I don't think I would of been out there protesting. Like they said in the interview, let I be suspended and expelled from the university there's no question I would of been drafted and sent over there to Vietnam. No doubt. I would make it a peaceful protest as possible if I was to be out there but as I do now I stay out of harms way and let other people speak for me. Because the way I feel about Vietnam, my protest about it would have probably got a little out of hand.
Ruben M.
Having served as a director and counselor for Cat Camp, the video and recording gave me a strong sense of pride to belong to the university I hold so dear in my heart. This demonstration of speechless dialogue in 1969 at the Fighting Stallions shed light to the rich traditions of the Texas State campus. Although I disagree with the administrations ultimate action to take against the "San Marcos 10," I do believe these peaceful protests, even when cut short by authority, speak volumes of the citizens who know their constitutional first amendment rights.
Being that USSC ruled on Tinker v. Des Moines the same year, I am surprised to find that appellate courts did not overturn the administrations initial ruling in favor of the students.
Finally, if ever a reason would bring me to protest, it would have to involve something dealing directly that infringes on my personal freedoms. I know I'm shallow enough to realize theres a lot of initial push in the wake of mass revelations to global tragedies- be it animal rights, environmental crisis, or human liberties-but until the government is knocking on my door, I'm content in my bubble. I realize its a terrible statement to make but I'd challenge anyone who says otherwise.
Maryorie P
In my opinion, the University violated the students' first amendment right of freedom of speech and assembly. They were not acting with violence or causing any disturbance. I think I would had probably had been part of the protest, and I would had supported those who were expelled. I think if all the students would had stayed, there would be a different outcome. It's not the same to expel 10 students, as it is to expel 100, but I guess the students were not united at that time. Overall, I think the University violated their first amendments rights because even if it was a critical time during the war, they had their right to express their ideas, and what they were doing was not going to harm the national security or, and did not disturbed the school's activities.
Judith P.
I believe the students were definitely wronged in this scenario. They were just exercising their first amendment right to peacefully assemble. I think the school's administration was too strict in their punishment. The San Marcos 10 truly believed in no war and that is totally alright,that is their right. Hence, there rights should not be infringed as university students. I probably would protest about any cause, especially if it truly affected me, my friends, and/or loved ones. I mean, as long as it does not disturb the rest of the students' educational process, I see it as a normal part of society.It is odd that the final decision did not get appealed, considering Tinker vs. Des Moines.
Jasmine K.
As young adults we are told it is important to have opinions and express our ideas, but then in cases like the San Marcos 10, we are "punished" for it. I think the administrators were way out of line when it came to this protest especially since the students were gathered by the stallions. Their first amendment rights were completely violated, but politics always wins.This is aggravating, but I am not surprised. We went over many cases in class revolving around protesting the Vietnam War and how they individuals who revolted against it generally lost in their fight even if their protest was peaceably.
I would totally take part in a protest if it was for something I truly believed in like stricter gun laws, gay/lesbian/transgender rights, equal pay for the sexes and many more social issues.
My initial reaction was "Hey! Wait, that's me protesting!" (referring to the video), my second reaction was a feeling of annoyance. Through my experience as a woman, a black woman, I understand how it feels to constantly be told to shut my mouth and stop complaining whether it is concerning inter-sectional feminism, the injustices seen/experienced concerning Black Lives Matter, or the simple expressions of appreciation concerning my blackness.
I am disappointed to learn that my University, that I love so much, has done this to their students. I know we have gotten better with the times I want to know if they have made any gestures to apologize for the firing of Bill Cunningham and the students who were suspended and expelled. I thought it to be immature for them to rob David Bayless from walking across the stage. That is a right for him as a graduating student and a right to his family who may have helped him financially throughout his collegiate year here.
They were right, although 9/11 took place less than two months before the interview there are still some people who are going to believe that war is not the answer, (we're all different, we can't expect everyone in America to be on one accord about one given issue).
As for the protest in 1969 I don't know if I would have joined the protest. Although I believe it to be a pointless war, there was a war going on in the United States that I see people presently wanting black people to forget. I don't think that back then I could risk being a black woman without my degree for the sake of the Vietnam war. Taking steps to providing a better future and legacy for my family would have been my priority. The Rhevan I am now, although my collegiate career is not yet over would have protested because I have other options and the belief in myself to thrive with or without my degree in today's society (I am now an entrepreneur and my success is limiltess due to my thought process).
This is infuriating. I can not believe the university would violate student rights on a non violent and silent protest. It was symbolic speech that did not disrupt any of the other students or schools' daily activities. The Tinker v. Des Moines case rings to this point. They have a right to attend or not attend the classes they paid for and according to the USSC "Students have free expression rights, unless it disrupts the educational process." It is a public university so the laws of the U.S. government do apply to them. Also, View Point discrimination from the R.A.V v. St. Paul case applies here. According to the five justices on that USSC case (Scalia, Rehnquist, Kennedy, Souter and Thomas) "... If the government supports viewpoint discrimination - they can punish people for having the wrong view point." I feel these students had their first amendment rights abused in many ways and personally I would not stand for that kind of treatment if I were in their shoes.
I definitely disagree with the decision the school administrators took against the silent protestors but I'm still proud to be a part of Texas State and their awesome traditions that involve the Fighting Stallions and the dialogue that takes place there. The "San Marcos ten," did not deserve that ruling and they should have gotten appealed. The whole point of the Fighting Stallions is for free speech to take place there and any protest you wish to be a part of. First amendment rights applied in their case so I'm just confused on how they got expelled, they were absolutely robbed of them in this case. I think they were screwed from the start just because their protest was revolved around the Vietnam War, even though they shouldn't have been punished because they were in the right place on campus and doing their protest peacefully, they were going to lose no matter what.
We are thankfully a part of a generation that, now more than ever, are fighting for the things we believe in and making a change for the better. At least that's what I believe. Which leads me to the answer YES. Yes I would be a part of a protest if I saw a definite reason for it and if it was something I stand firm for. Issues like animal rights, equality for the sexes and LGBT rights. I don't base my opinion of someone based off the color of their skin or whether they are gay or not. I come from a place where being "white" was the minority and that's because I'm half white and half hispanic, but you wouldn't know that by just looking at me. I'm for everyone being treated as equals and I would definitely protest for that!
Samantha G.
The administration's decision to expel the students was excessive in my opinion. I understand suspension because missing classes can really affect someone's progress. It violated their freedom of speech and to assemble; their protest was peaceful and didn't interfere with the university's educational goals or activities. Although the war was controversial, each opinion should be respected if presented in a mature and peaceful manner.
I was surprised to learn they weren't given a chance for a court to rule in their favor. In Tinker v. Des Moines, the kids had their freedom of speech protected as high schoolers. I think it's cruel for a university to expel adults who pay for their education.
I have said since about middle school that I would want to be part of a protest. Anger about injustice has driven me the most over fear or worry of an issue. Not everyone will agree with the cause you support, but there will be others that agree with you. The sharing of ideas can start a movement and make change whether it takes a year or more. There are some issues I want to get more involved in once I graduate and move out of San Marcos.
I had never heard of the San Marcos 10 and I was kind of surprised. I've been a student here for three years and this is the first I've ever heard it mentioned. It was sad to see our schools administration infringe upon the San Marcos 10's rights. They were engaged in a peaceful protest with no harm being done except to the perceived reputation of the school. It is really exciting to see Texas State students standing up for what they believe in, especially so long ago.
I was shocked to find out they're suspensions remained in affect, it is a dark spot on our schools' history for sure. I like how often I can see students speaking they're mind on campus, and it is clear that the San Marcos 10 paved the way for all these students. I hope to see the San Marcos 10 honored on campus someday.
Piper D.
I have also never heard of the San Marcos 10 and I am actually shocked that this happened at Texas State. It is neat to see and hear about things that were protested about in the past and how much things have changed. I believe that the students were definitely wronged in this situation. It makes me angry that these students were expelled and their GPA's dropped to 0 for being apart of a non violent protest! The protest did not cause any harm. I understand that it was a sensitive time but no one was killed because of this protest and it did not seem to conflict with the students education. I think that it was taken too far and it definitely infringed on their rights. I think that the San Marco 10 made history and should be honored for standing up for what they believe in and staying true to their beliefs.
Nickolas F.
I think the University took it personally when finding a punishment for the San Marcos 10. To expel the them and then drop their GPA down to 0 was a little over the top. They were just holding signs, which sounded like a non-violent protest but also said that the crowd drawn could disrupt the University. If the crowd was very disruptive I can see were the University could push that point in court. If disturbance of the education system was proven then thats all the University would need to win. My thought is this was in 1969, which just like a lot of other cases we have studied seemed to change as the court decides similar cases over and over again. Today it seems like the Stallions is a lot more open to free speech.
Anna N.
For once, this makes me happy that I live in such a digital age. A college could not get away with this type of behavior these days. The negative press resulting from this would go viral and admission would drop dramatically. The responsibility of higher education is not only to honer free thought and expression but encourage, grow and celebrate it. Texas State failed in their duties that day.
It would take a very exceptional circumstance for me to protest anything, people are mostly set in there views and it's going to take a lot more then yelling a catchy phrase in their direction to generate real change. I would rather have a debate with one person then yell at 100.
Hannah Owen
Wow, this is really crazy but also a great news story of Texas State really being involved in history.
I don't think those kids should have been expelled. They have every right to protest and express their thoughts about the Vietnam war. Especially at the stallions, which have been provided as a safe space. It's not like the kids were interrupting any classes. They didn't go to class wearing anything distracting, or starting arguments with professors. Hell they did a silent protest. I think at that war time, everyone was so sensitive.
It seems to me that this should have been illegal for the dean to expel them. I'm surprised none of these students started a lawsuit. I feel like it would have ended in their favor, like in Tinker V. Des Moines.
That's very sad.
The craziest protest I've seen in my college career here was the almost naked girl doing an art project to promote against rape and the "I'm not asking for it" argument. That wasn't even a protest though, but it was her symbolic speech and exercise of her first amendment right. I believe police ended up guarding her or escorting her off the quad. I'm not sure. I never heard a story of disciplinary action or police issuing her any penalty. Which is great, cause in my eyes she did nothing wrong.
Like those ten students. Punishment undeserving and unconstitutional.
Victoria G.
I don't think the San Marcos 10 should have been punished. I feel like its almost like in Tinker v. Des Moines, the students were silently protesting against the Vietnam War. Just because everyone around them was making a big deal about it doesn't mean these people should have lost their opportunity to continuing their education for any time.
I'm honestly not sure that I would protest in a cause unless I felt extremely strongly about the cause. In the past, when there have been protests on campus or debates going on at the stallions, I am usually already on my way somewhere (probably running late) and I don't stick around to see what is happening. I wish I could stick around, but working full time and having a full course load of classes and everything else life typically throws at anyone distracts me so much that I don't get involved as much as I should, or would like to.
I think if I did protest something it would be for animals or something like human rights. With the Orlando Shooting so recent, I would protest for gay rights.
I believe that while the students' were simply doing what they thought was socially necessary, the school was justified in acting with such swift and harsh punishments. The courage of the Texas State 10 that remained despite the university's threats was truly inspiring. The fact that pressure from friends, family and their school did not sway their minds, says a lot about the character of the ones who remained. I really cannot say for sure one way or another whether I would personally have stayed. I don't know that anyone could say something like that without actually being presented the situation. The students were doing what they knew to be right and the school/dean was doing what they thought was necessary to prevent a large-scale disruption on campus. As awful as this sounds, I'm a firm believer in not believing. Prevents opportunities for martyrdom to arise.
Lucas H.
Fernanda C.
I had no idea this happened at Texas State. My initial reaction was shock! How could Texas State do that to students that are only practicing their First Amendment rights by protesting? We are supposed to be able to express ourselves and have our own opinions. Learning that the San Marcos 10 suffered such consequences really upsets me. This is something that really impacted their futures by not being able to continue to get their degrees as planned, and all that because they were trying to express their opinions. It would of been a completely different situation if the students were violent but this was a peaceful protest, which is something that every American Citizen has a right to do. What happened with the San Marcos 10 reminds me a lot of the Tinker v. Des Moines case.
I would absolutely take part in a protest if it was for something I truly believed in. If there is a cause that I believe in and that I see needs to be represented I would absolutely stand up for. It is one of my rights to be able to express my opinion.
Spencer F.
Clearly what happened with the suspensions, the students' rights were violated and the situation was not handled properly. As far as TXST goes now, with our free speech rights and multiple congregations at the horse statue each semester – I love it. While I have not personally participated in any great deal of protest on campus, I believe I would if a certain topic came to stand. Up until now, the protests on campus have been more entertaining than worth fighting for, for me.
Watching these videos really opened my eyes and made me realize how much times have changed. If I were a student of the San Marcos Ten, I would feel unjustified and uncomfortable practicing my rights if I was prosecuted in such a way. The punishment they were given was outrageous, expulsion and dropping their grade point averages was an extreme action and was not necessary. One of the biggest freedoms of the first amendment is to be able to stand up for what a person believes and not be punished for it. The protests on the quad are usual occurrences for students today, the San Marcos Ten would have had a better experience then they did in 1969 if they were students now. As a student, I am appalled of how officials handled the situation.
-Kalyn F
I am really surprised to hear how very clearly unfair it was for these students to be expelled, it was a peaceful protest. I think this just proves that even though as college students that apparently have free speech rights, we really don't.
I feel like there have been times when I've wanted to protest but I've been too afraid of getting in trouble. When was the last time someone reported on a protest that didn't end in violence and arrests?
I definitely disagree with the decision of the school administration. It was a peaceful protest and expulsion was clearly an unfair ruling, these students were just expression their First Amendment right to peacefully assemble. The San Marcos 10 stood against the Vietnam War, and they had the right to express their belief. Their right should not have been taken away from them by the University Administration. I see it odd that the final decision did not get appealed, considering the Tinker vs Des Moines supreme court case.
I would protest a cause that I truly cared about, or that affected the people that I care about.
Shouldn't the students have a right to peaceably assemble? I do not agree with the school administration's decision. This goes back to Justice Brennan's dissent in Hazelwood v. Kuhlmeier. We have these freedoms, we love these freedoms but we are not trusted with them. Although I may have a different opinion than San Marcos 10, they have a right to express that opinion. I believe if a similar situation happened today, it would be handled very differently. If a protest came about that I truly felt passionate about I would definitely participate. All of the protests I have seen on campus seem silly and seem like more of an attention grabbing thing.
Blake K.
The first thing that jumped out at me was that a court upheld the decision to expel the San Marcos 10. Not only were the students adults, but especially with the precedent of Tinker v. Des Moines, the students should have been allowed to continue their protest. Especially since this is a public university. Not only that but the managing editor for the Star wrote a piece reporting and criticizing the events that happened on campus and he was fired. So we see University management prevent peaceful assembly and punish a reporter for reporting on the topic. Both of these things are considered speech that is protected by the first amendment. Of course looking back on this now, I'm sure there are details that we are not aware of. It makes me wonder if the school management was so pro-war that they took action against the students, or if there was another motivator.
Kara D.
I definitely believe that the students were wronged in this situation. The right to peaceably assemble is one of the 10 unalienable rights in the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights. The students have the right to freely believe and talk about whatever they want, so therefore, their rights shouldn't be looked over/taken away from them. If I had a cause that affected me, along with my friends and/or family that I truly believed in, I would definitely publicly protest it, as long as I knew it wasn't disturbing anyone or hurting anyone in any way. I think discussing causes in public is part of the world today and should be embraced, like I said, as long as it's not disturbing or hurting anyone.
Jarrett M.
The first reaction that I had was looking at the school and seeing how different it was especially the stallions. As well as noticing that the university seemed to have a dress code once upon a time. Regardless the biggest reaction that I had though was hearing how the 10 were treated. I am sure other negative things happened to them as well that were not mentioned in the video. It really shows you the progression of time and the effect of the SC cases. We look back at history so often as events that didn't happen in our lifetime but take a step back and see that history is made every day.
While I have not participated in any protests I have participated in counter-protests. They would normally be against anti-choice churches primarily for their use of deceptive information. I have also been around the stallions many times during its use as a free speech zone. While I may be infuriated by religious fanatics from time to time I would still much rather have it the way it is today. It is better to feel negative emotions than have people being censored for any opinion.
I believe that the suspension of the San Marcos Ten is an abuse of administrative power that violates the students' First Amendment rights to speech and assembly.
I did a little more research on the San Marcos Ten after checking out those first two sources and found this Houston Chronicle article in which Dean Martine attempts to justify his actions. He and school officials wanted the students to disperse before a large group of anti-protesters could escalate the situation. Martine said “There were about 200 old rednecks (nearby) who wanted to run them out of town.” I understand that it was easier and safer for administrators and law enforcement to diffuse the situation before it could escalate, but it was completely inappropriate to punish the students for fear of what their opponents were going to do. In the NPR interview, David Bayless says Martine himself said the students were not creating a disruption, so I cannot understand how he could justifiably dole out suspensions in light of the Tinker v. Des Moines ruling earlier that year. The Tinker case established the framework that protects students’ free expression rights, unless they disrupt the educational process. The student protestors did not create a disruption, so they should not have been punished. If the threat of disturbing the peace or even violence came from the pro-war anti-protestors, they are the ones who should have been dispersed and reprimanded.
I also think the United States has a serious cultural problem with military worship. Bayless spoke to this when he said that people have an “America: Love it or leave it” attitude, and don’t like to hear anything less than 100% behind the war effort. This was relevant during the Vietnam war and it is relevant today during the war on terror. The US military is not perfect. It is full of corruption, fraud, and abuse. The US has wasted billions of dollars in the war on terror, but to call this out is to be labeled un-American and a heretic. Most people will stand by with unquestioning, unfaltering admiration of the armed forces as fraud, waste, and bloodshed proliferate. I can’t offer a solution to these problems, but the first step to finding a solution for all this corruption is collectively understanding that it exists, and that our military is not perfectly just and unerring.
It is a rare day when I post a comment to anything online. I can’t even remember the last time I left a comment on something. Generally, I undervalue my own opinions and obsess about getting my words just right to the point where commenting isn’t worth it to me. If typing a comment is too much effort for me most of the time, I can’t imagine an issue that would sufficiently motivate me to physically go somewhere to take part in a protest. Also I can’t drive. This doesn’t mean I’m completely apathetic, though. I called my congressman and asked him to vote in favor of net neutrality last year. There are many ways to contribute to different causes, and I’m partial to the more subtle methods of support.
Jeez this comment ended up being way longer than I expected.
tl;dr- The San Marcos Ten should not have been punished due to the framework set by Tinker. The United States needs to take a step back from its military worship and critically evaluate how the military is performing (hint- not well). I can’t think of any cause that would make me go to a protest, but I’d rather support some causes through different means (like wirting).
Matthew F.
Abby W.
Wow, it is really something else to see how the campus and university used to be. Today, many assemblies are held by the stallions and anyone is free to voice their opinions. It upsets me that the students were expelled for exercising their first amendment right! The San Marcos 10 were peacefully protesting and they were actually trying to promote peace. I love that the students stood there and stood by their beliefs of protesting against the Vietnam War. If I was alive back then, I would have stood there with them perhaps making it the San Marcos 11. It saddens me that the court upheld the ruling of expelling the students. I think that not only Texas State, but the United States, has come a long way since 1969.
I think that the ruling was totally against the first amendment. Though the university claimed that the students disrupted educational flow it was not their intent. They were taking part of a peaceful protest. Not only that but in a public place, and they were standing against a political affair. Just because the university did not agree with it doesn't mean it required punishment. I think that if the case had trial by jury vs trial by judge the outcome would have been different.
I would participate in a number of protests. I recently was trying to participate in the "Bring Uber and Lyft back" protest in Austin. However it was so unorganized. I would also only participate if it was peaceful. I remember last year a group of people protested police brutality by getting on to I-35 and shutting down the highway and I just remember how much I hated that form of protest. It affected day to day people trying to get to work, trying to get to school to pick up their children, it just wasn't thought out and to me didn't represent a stance on police brutality, maybe if you were protesting I-35? I think that ones I am most likely to participate in are women's rights, environmental rights, student rights. I would love to commit to one at some point in my life.
Joseph L
After learning about the San Marcos 10 I am outraged. These 10 students were denied their constitutional rights of freedom of speech and assembly. Their protest was quiet and peaceful, so I don't see why the students were punished. I am very thankful for the San Marcos 10 because I use the quad to spread my own message of positivity and bubble believing.
I don't always protest, but when I see an injustice that effects me I will. For example, the college I attended before TXST started to make every student pay for eBooks, which are online books. This was unfair because many student did not have great internet access at home and the campus WiFi was weak. I held signs and attended a couple of city council meeting for this cause. In the end the eBooks did not show up on our tuition.
Luis C. H.
First of, regardless if our country is going through rough times, and in need of assistance or participants in a protest, I will never feel motivated to participate. This is because, from a cultural stand point, I do not believe in protests. I think that every authority or person in power (government authorities, academic authorities, professors, and such) know exactly what is going on with our society and environment at school, and regardless if one protest for a cause or not, they would still determine what they see fit for our country or schools.
I know that protesting could make a difference, but I stand close to the principles I described above. In my case, it is a matter of preference and safety. I do think that there are cases that motivate me in other ways, but not enough for me to join a protest.
I think that it was unjust when those 10 students got their GPA dropped to zero and spelled from school according to the first video, but that’s just my opinion.
In class we talked about two incidents that distinguished this points of view — an education case — Morse v. Frederick (USSC, 2007), and also the hidden clause in the Code of Student Conduct of the Texas State University handbook.
In the case mention above (Morse v. Frederick) the teacher had jurisdiction over the students because the lighting of the torch was considered a school event. On the other hand, in the Texas State University (Southwest Texas) protest the students seemed to be away from classrooms, not disturbing the educational process conducted by academic professors.
I want to mention another point of view which we covered with yet a different education case in class; Thinker v. Des Moines Independent Community School District (Black arm bands), (USSC, 1969). It was said that the framework of this case tells us that, “students have free expression rights, unless it disrupts the educational process.”
Taking this point of view into consideration, I think that the protest according to the first video, only 10 students stood to what they thought was right. In my opinion they were not disrupting the educational process. But, others (academic authorities) might have seen this protest as a threat, and I think that is why that decision was made.
I do not agree with what the San Marcos 10 did after hearing the NPR report broadcast. They were told not to do the protest without the academic authorities’ consent, but yet they still did it. They were told that if they did the protest there would have been disciplinary actions, but still, they did not listen.
In my personal experiences I have learned many things, one of which being that everyone has different opinions on every matter, regardless if it’s war, society, presidential elections, education, etc.
I’m a veteran, and I fought and supported this country for eight years of my life with two tours, one to Afghanistan and one to Kuwait. I have a totally different opinion about war and the things that are going on in our society, but yet it doesn’t make sense for this students to do what they did. If some of this students were veterans, they should have had a better understanding of the war.
Rachael R.
My reaction to this video is surprised and angered. This is my first time hearing about the San Marcos 10 and it's very shocking to hear that the school I attend would would take action like this towards its students for simply expressing their opinion. War will bring out the most extreme emotions in people and it is not something that you can just tell someone to shut up about especially when people are losing family and friends. If I were alive during this time and attending school at Southwest Texas State I probably would have participated in this silent protest. There are many issues going on today that I feel very strongly about, one in particular that happened only last semester on campus was the anti-abortion group that came and had a huge display around the stallion statue. It only takes a couple minutes out of your day to make sure your voice is heard and I think every voice counts.
Paige D.
I am surprised to hear the actions of the University. It is sad that at times we are still robbed of our first amendment rights. It is a public university, so i think think was definitely wrong of the school to take such harsh action. Although I have strong opinions on certain issues, i am not one to protest. In my opinion it doesn't usually do much good.
Alexander R.
It blows me away that basic constitutional rights were thrown so quickly out the window for students that disagree with a war effort. It really hurts the reputation of the country that likes to view itself as the most free in the world. Just off the top of my head, the students had a right to free speech, the administration tried to use prior restraint (99% unconstitutional), and the students shared a right to fair comment and criticism. The punishment was far and beyond anything I thought possible from an actual university.
The environment and social causes would be enough to get me to protest. Unfortunately we haven't seen much progress in protest in recent years and I wouldn't want to participate in something I don't believe is actually a protected right. People are hurt and jailed and even killed in protests whether it's by other civilians or officials. Protest should be a much more protected form, but as of now stands to be dangerous and mostly ineffective.
Even though the protest was deemed "unpopular" on campus, I believe they should have had the right to peacefully protest. Until the protest actually causes a disruption, they should have been no disciplinary action.
I personally had no idea that our school was apart of something so historic. I feel proud to go to a school where students of the past stood up for what they believed in.
-Monica G.
Jessie G.
This case just didn't seem fair at all. If the protest was said to be unpopular then I'm pretty sure there was no disruptions going on. I agree with most of class when everyone says that basic constitional rights were just tossed out so quickly. I would have imagined something along the lines Tinker V. Des Moines where the case would have been appealed. I also find it kind of ironic that LBJ was president at this time. If you look up interviews from the 60s a bunch of young adult seem to criticize him the most compared to older adults. I feel like in some way the people in high office at Texas state not only took offense for the school but for LBJ as well. Maybe that's why the case seemed to get brushed off. But hey I give them props. Had no clue about the San Marcos 10 and it's a really inspiring story. I'm not saying I'm going to protest anytime soon but it gives a strong message to those reading about this.
Carmen D.L.G.
There's a clear difference between peaceful protesting and protesting with violence. It is also clear that the students were not doing anything wrong by simply having their 1st amendment rights. In the time of this war, many people were mentally unstable. And unstable can mean alot things, such as being depressed, upset, aggravated etc. With these things students (or just people) in generaln can cause a violent scene. In this case that was not the goal of the students as I'm sure it wasn't the goal for the administrators either. But also in a time of war many small actions can lead to disturbing or bigger cases and maybe that's what the administration wanted to prevent. Instead they make the peaceful protest INTO a big deal by expelling the students.
As for the students being that there were only 10 can make a difference for how people react or decide whether or not they'd join a protest. Students perhaps were scared in the sense that they may get in trouble or had mix feelings about being so passionate of protesting against the war. Perhaps 1000 students vs. 10 students would definately make a difference or statement right there and then. But I have no doubt that these 10 still made history anyway (as I'm learning of it today).
I find it in any students right to peacfully protest/assemble and I too would have done the same. If it's morally right in my eyes and my concious is okay with it, along with having a lawful right in my defense- then why not?
I'm really surprised after listening to these to documentations on the San Marcos Ten. This so closely resembles Tinker v. Des Moines, as those school officials made a rule prohibiting the use of wearing armbands the day before the protest. It's also prior restraint, right? I'm disappointed with the school officials responding this way. It was a clear violation of First Amendment rights, freedom of speech and the right to assemble. It was a nonviolent protest, in which the students should have had their rights protected.
As for causes that I would take part in protesting, anything that I feel directly affected by or pulls on my heart strings, I'll stick my neck out for. Right now, there is a petition to save the waterfall in San Marcos. This is something I feel strongly about, and will participate in signing the petition to do so, and any other assembly I can for this cause. The environment is such a huge and great thing in San Marcos, that is my number one concern for my home. On the other hand, I was interviewed on campus about my opinions of have neutral restrooms on campus last week. If there was a peaceful protest on campus encouraging the fair treatment of the LGBT community, I would take part in it. Hopefully, then, Texas State University would respect students first amendment rights to do so, nearly 50 years later.
I'm surprised by the actions that the university took. The students were clearly not doing anything wrong by exercising their first amendment right. While I find protest annoying to have to walk through on my way to class, that doesn't mean that people don't have the right to protest on a public university campus. I don't think at this time in my life I feel passionate about any cause to protest about it.
-Angela V.
Considering the time period that this situation occurred in, I am not surprised by the outcome. However, when you consider that Texas State University is now known for it's diversity, it really makes you realize how much things can change overtime. There is no doubt that the First Amendment rights of the ten students were violated. There is no reasonable justification for the administration's actions. There students were protesting peacefully and did not act out violently. Their protest should have been protected.
I have never been apart of a protest, and I really wonder whether I will ever be driven to that point. I would have to say that there would have to be a cause or situation that greatly affected me in order for me to be apart of a protest.
I believe that the university used extreme measures when punishing the San Marcos Ten, regardless of your views on peaceful protest I believe that the students should not have had there GPA's dropped and expelled. Although this was a more conservative time period, I believe that the students where justified in there actions to peacefully protest. The video shows that they where clearly protesting in a peaceful manor without violence or the threatening of violence.
I respect that first amendment of peaceful protest is right not a privilege and if you feel strong enough about an issue you should protest. I personally have never protested, but if I felt strong enough about an issue I would exercise my right.
June 23, 2016 at 7:30pm
It's so clear that the rights of the San Marcos Ten were violated. The dean even said it himself, they were causing no problems (with the educational process) yet took measures to stop them simply on the fact that something could happen. Which brings up and even bigger question on why the judge who presided over this case ruled that they were causing a problem to the educational process when the dean of the school, who seeming had firsthand knowledge of what went on, said they had not. The punishment also seemed excessive, like it was more of a warning to future potential protesters and not actual fair punishment for the San Marcos Ten.
The Tinker case also pops into my mind as the dean told them, before hand, that if they went ahead with the protest then they would be punished. I wonder if there had been a pro-war gathering in the quad, would the same measures have been taken?
I've always been a pacifist. I grew up around war and military with my father, a Vietnam vet, and my brothers being in the navy and air force I saw them get deployed a handful of times. I respect and admire the students that used their first amendment for a protest, especially a peaceful one. I think it's cruel and unfair that the school expelled them and threw their GPA's out the window. It jumped to an extreme, especially without an immediate call to action. I would proudly stand with them.
- Liliana Rivera
Kendra C.
I find this case to be very appalling. It is clear that the San Marcos 10 were participating in a silent and non violent anti-war protest. To protest peacefully, with no disturbance towards the Southwest Texas State University, students should have not been denied their rights. I believe it was way too excessive to have expelled theses students and dropped their GPA's to 0. I'm sure those students worked extremely hard to get to where their GPA's where at.
Under the First Amendment we are protected from freedom of speech, press, assembly, petition and religion. This was violated during this case. If administrator's really didn't want this non-vilont protest to occur, then they should have approached it in a different measure.
During this case I probably would have participated in the protest. I am a firm believer in standing up for what you believe in no matter the consequence.
Maura C
After watching the video and listening to the NPR report broadcast, I believe not only were the student’s first amendment rights violated but the repercussions of being expelled with a 0 GPA were extremely harsh. The interviews on the NPR report stated that the protest interfered with the free flow of the education process. It was also mentioned that the school thought there would be the possibility of disruption. However, the protest was completely peaceful and non-violent. Also, on hearing Bill Cunningham, I believe his being fired definitely interfered with free press.
Having the NPR report about the San Marcos 10 after the terror attacks on 9/11 was informative but really not that relative. The Vietnam War was very unpopular pitting students and others against the establishment. In contrast, the terror attacks on 9/11 saw everyone in the United States coming together for war against Al Qaeda. I don’t know if I would take part in any protest. If I did it might be about animal rights. However, I would probably sign a petition such as the “Leave our sign alone” petition going on in my home town of Hondo.
While watching this I felt as if I had been wronged. It crazy to me what lengths people will go through to shut people up. These students had their education taken away from them and gpa shot to 0, only because they had a right to their opinion.
But as much of an injustice I felt it made me think back to the education cases and how the sctudents did tend to lose. I do not know if the same rules apply to college as they do in elementary and highschool, but I can see how this could be a disturbance to the school. No matter how peaceful it was, it caused attention to be brought to Texas State that they clearly did not want. I can see at that time how southwest Texas could be very conservative and did not want to send the wrong message. I feel they failed their students more than anything just because they were not brave enough to speak up. This is the perfect example of oppression and I wish we could have talked about this in class during our lecture of the education cases. I feel it would have hit home a little more for us.
After listening to both of the videos, I'm quite appalled that this is the first time I have heard this story. I see people in the quad protesting things all of the time, but I've never questioned whether or not they have the right to do so. It's interesting that at one point the administration was the one breaking the law and not allowing the San Marcos 10 to express their right to freedom of speech and assembly, especially since they didn't even say anything and just held up signs. I also didn't know that Texas State is a yellow light school... and some of our policy's could potentially abuse student's rights. This video is pretty eye opening to how far the once Southwest Texas State University administration was willing to go to prevent student's from their constitutional rights. Not to mention lowering their GPA to a 0 seems extremely excessive.
I try to sign petitions regarding animal cruelty, GMO's, and human trafficking. Human trafficking being the main one I pay attention to. The idea that someone would sell another person for sex absolutely disgusts me, and I would definitely go to all ends to protest against that.
After listening to the reports I am shocked by the administrations behavior during the protest and years after. The students took part in a peaceful protest and should not have been punished for it. There was precedent for this too so I am alarmed by the judge's decision. The commotion surrounding the protest would not have been there if the administrators wouldn't have threatened disciplinary action.
Also, the fact that years later when Bayless went to graduate and he was victim to a "computer error" could not be a coincidence. If it is it is one of great convenience to Southwest Texas.
I feel I would take part in a protest that I felt strongly about. Maybe not political, but animal cruelty or human trafficking.
Wow. We definitely live in a different time period. It's almost hard to believe how strict the university was back then, because it is so "chill" on campus now. I have always felt like the campus was an open forum where I could share my opinions, if I wanted to, without ridicule from administration. The San Marcos 10 did nothing wrong. They practiced their 1st Amendment rights without violence or chaos and were still punished. Being expelled plus having their GPA's wiped down to a 0 seems highly unfair and idiotic. The situation did not call for such a punishment; especially since no laws were broken.
I would participate in a protest if I had the time and was really passionate about the topic of protest. A current protest I would support would be for abortion rights and for women to have the rights to their own bodies.
Let me start off by saying I had absolutely no idea about the "San Marcos 10". After listening to the reports, I can say they the school was completely out of line.
The schools actions were definitely in violation of their right to free speech and the right to peaceably assemble, aka the first amendment.
They had a right to protest and essentially question the government if they didn't agree with it (first amendment).
Although the school has tons of power over the students in the cases we've learned about, this was/is a public school in which WE pay tuition to attend.
The students protesting the Vietnam War did everything within their right.
The students that left the protest might have diminished the numbers but it didn't diminish the cause.
Personally, I admire the ten students stayed. If I was there in 1969, I wouldn't have stayed and I'm not so sure I would even do it now. Only way I can imagine staying is if there were a large amount of protesters.
Theres just this kind of strength in numbers, and i don't know how brave i'd be to stay with just 9 other people.
I don't know if its because I can't connect with their reasons for protesting or what!
I have been to a Black Lives Matter protest a few years ago, when the movement first started, but there were a ton of people which was a great support.
I don't think the number of people would've discouraged me but now i'm just off on another tangent.
Camille S.
The thing that most surprised me about the San Marcos 10 is that all of this was allowed to happen at a Public University. I understand a private institution having the authority to enforce policies that put limits on a student's free speech and/or expression, but to have a such harsh actions take place at a public university over a peaceful, non-violent protest is really shocking to me. I also think the punishment was extremely harsh given that the protest was just a peaceful assembly of students. There was definitely a severe overreaction from the administration. If I felt strongly enough about an issue, I would definitely attend a protest for it. I think peaceful demonstrations can be very effective in bringing attention to an issue and if it was something I felt passionately about I wouldn't hesitate to attend.
Holly V.H.
First, I would just like to say that I think it's so relatable for you to have placed this same hypothetical situation in a time that we endured. Regarding this topic, it infuriates me beyond belief. I am the type of person to stand up and voice my opinion even if it left me standing alone. To be disciplined for a nonviolent protest during a devastating time like this makes me sick. By suppressing opposing ideas simply because they are in fact different is what takes this nation not only two steps back, but shatters what our nation is supposed to represent.
So, safe to say I would have been standing alongside peers exercising my given rights because that's what America stands for.
Wow, I have heard of the San Marcos 10 but my knowledge on the subject is very limited. It does help to bring this situation into perspective by associating this with 9/11 and the following war on terror. That is something we can definitely relate to. Regarding the issue, it is interesting that the action was taken against these students but as we have learned in many of our cases this summer, this is around the time when law was still being defined and many of the precedents had not yet been set on what you could or couldn't do on a public campus. I can't say i am shocked by but it definitely interests me to see what goes on now in the quad and how it couldn't of been that much worse throughout time. I believe we are more used to it than we would have been in the past. Now was it the right decision by the school? Definitely not but i try to look at it with context as you have taught us in class. War protests were a common occurrence and school officials probably didn't want to lose their handle on the students. Misguided thinking led to this incident.
I honestly cannot think of a cause that would make me protest. I guess its hard to truly say one way or another until you are in that situation. If the government bans sour candy i might change my mind on the subject but right now there is not really an issue that i would protest over. But I do not look down on anyone who would or feels the need to protest. That is their right, and who am i to say otherwise.
Robert Taylor Hair,
Gabby H
I had no knowledge of the San Marcos 10 before watching this video and listening to the interview. It is pretty infuriating to hear how the situation was handled all because of students used their first amendment right to speak out on topic they were passionate about. The university had no right to abuse there power, regardless of the time period. These students caused nothing more then a minor distraction on campus (with purpose) and had no intentions of any harm to the public. The fact that this lead to "free speech zones" is ironically restricting.
There are COUNTLESS issues I would be willing to protest about. Once I gain the slightest knowledge on a social issue I get heated way to fast, which is probably why I refrain from actually protesting. I would not be a effective protester as my ghetto south sider roots would most likely kick in at the wrong time. I know that isn't a valid excuse for me not speaking out on issues I am passionate about but there are many other factors of protesting that contribute to the fear and oppression I have for the method.
Savannah S.
I personally had never heard of the San Marcos 10 until this blog post. I find it shocking and unorthodox that the 10 students who stood in silent protest had such severe consequences to their actions. Their punishments were even more outlandish knowing that their silent protest led to no eruptions nor disturbances. It seems the university was only making an example out of the San Marcos 10 with no just cause. The stallions are deemed an area that is thought to be a safe place to speak freely. It deflates my respect of the administration during 1969, that they would take that freedom away from the students. I am proud of the San Marcos 10 for standing up for what they believe in. I would like to see this incident publicized more to encourage other bobcats to speak freely and not cower.
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