As we explore the boundaries of what is and isn't protected by free
speech, we see countless examples today of public protests. But this is
nothing new. For example, the 1960s and 1970s had widespread protests
against the Vietnam War.
Our campus also involved political protest in those tumultuous times.
Ten students at Texas State University (then called Southwest Texas State University) took part in a protest
against the Vietnam War on campus, but were suspended and expelled from the university.
Check out this brief video by The University Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ygdK1awjMA#t=15
Also, listen to this NPR report broadcast from Oct. 23, 2001, in which two of the San Marcos Ten were interviewed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1131946
Consider that this interview was conducted less than two months after the terrorist attack on Sept. 11, 2001.
After you watch and listen to this reports, return here and add a
comment with your reaction. Also, consider whether there are any causes
-- political, environmental, social or otherwise -- that would motivate you
to take part in a protest.
Please remember to include your first name and last name initial.
130 comments:
Nathan Seibert T/TH 2pm
I think it's very shocking to see how strict and uptight Texas State used to be and how they weren't very open to free speech at the time. I think it was very unfair of Texas State to expel the students and decrease their GPA to 0 for nonviolently protesting. I think it's great that we're living in a time where people are much more accepting of free speech and the right to protest. I think voicing your opinion and having it be heard is really important right now.
As I'm sure most people feel, it's atrocious that these students were expelled for protesting the Vietnam war. Protesting government, and especially war/soldiers is an interesting thing. Most anti-protestors claim that anyone protesting is taking for granted the hard work and sacrifice soldiers commit to, however, that hard work and sacrifice is so that these people have a right to free speech. I am motivated today to protest so many things, the unfair treatment of minorities, police brutality etc. It's 2017 and we live in a wonderful place considering what many parts of the world look like but it still isn't enough. Many things still must change and I am glad that I have the constitutional right to voice my opinion.
I think the juxtaposition between Texas State then and now is the most interesting part of this. I remember touring the school for the first time, and the person giving the tour really made a big deal about the free speech area on campus. Hearing about students getting expelled for expressing their opinions in a peaceful manner was a shock. I have protested many things in the past and will continue to do so, as I believe that that is part of what makes America great.
To me, this era in general is very interesting, but the fact that this involves our campus makes it even more interesting. Texas State did not treat the students correctly for just exercising their right in free speech, especially when the incident occurred at the free speech stallions. In the time we live in, people aren't afraid anymore. Protests have become more and more common nowadays, and they have been since our lovely president has stepped in office.
The diversity and freedom of self expression at Texas State are some of the greatest elements about our university. So it is shocking to see students become expelled for exercising free speech. As an American free speech is a natural right. The students protested peacefully, and I do not see the reason for explosion by Texas State. Fighting for social change and, standing up for what you believe in is is important. You should not suffer from consequences from it.
Mary Knight
I think expelling the students for speaking their minds was unconstitutional, especially because they were expressing issues they had with the war. They also had the rights to freedom of speech and a peaceful protests, which they did. I am so glad it has changed to a University that holds itself to a higher standard. I feel like the student body of Texas State now uses the stallions more than ever to voice their concerns peacefully.
Jerremy H. TTH 2pm
I'm proud to be an integral part of many protests here at Texas State University, ranging from a variety of issues, and I have to thank the University for a portion of that. In contrast to the San Marcos Ten, and how they were treated for expressing their beliefs at the time, I feel completely comfortable in participating in these protests, being fully confident in my protection of the First Amendment. I am disgusted in how unfairly these students were treated at the time, even with knowing the heightened sense of threat in our country. No matter the crisis that we as a country are enduring, we need to have the right to speak out and express our unique opinions, which fuels democracy in not only the San Marcos community, but also at the state and federal level as well.
Kevin S
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
For this blog post, I think it's important to point out the First Amendment language, specifically; the 'right to peaceably assemble' and 'freedom of speech.' Expelling students who were participating in a non-violent, peaceful protest violates their First Ammendment rights, as stated above. Does it not? To be honest, the fact that it happened at our university is a bit surprising. The short of it is, is that whether you are for or against a war, you have the right - or should be entitled to voice your opinion.
As discussed in class, I feel the student that were suspended had the right to make an argument under the 1st amendment. They were not expressing or pushing for any acts of violence. They were actually doing the opposite, they wanted the violence in Vietnam to stop. As for the noise that was being made, disrupting classrooms, that was not their doing. I find it unfair that they were punished the way they were. Though one was able to attend again and graduate, it kind of leaves a stigma for the university officials and their decision-making. I'm sure it has to do eight the time period, because now, clearly times have changed and protests happen al other time. I'm glad it has changed though and I'm glad for our free speech zone.
- Karla M.
T/TH: 11-12:20
It is so interesting that this happened on Texas State's campus, since it has a lot to do with what we've been covering in class, as well as current debates on Free Speech. Two things that stuck out to me are:
1) The fact that the judge ruled on the basis that while they weren't the loud, disrupting force on campus, the disruption that was all around their protests is what caused them to be held accountable. This doesn't seem like a good reason at all to suspend students.
2) The fact that Southwest Texas said there was a "computer error" in the graduation of one of the San Marcos 10, causing him not to be able to walk at graduation. That shows how committed Southwest Texas was to their earlier decisions regarding these students (although they could have denied him re-admission in the first place.)
-Kelly N. (T/TH 11-12;20)
I was honestly shocked at the way Texas State responded to this protest. To see how far we've come, that I can openly climb next to that statue and preach what I believe, and not be expelled for doing so. I can't imagine the thought process that was going through the Texas State 10 at that time. Their college credits gone, their GPA down to zero, and expelled immediately during a time of war. That would honestly be terrifying, to think, "what now?"
A peaceful protest, is ALWAYS okay, to me. We have that right as americans, to come together when we feel strongly about an issue, or if we feel there is injustice in a situation. It makes me think of all the NFL players right now taking a knee, and the backlash they are getting. They are not taking a knee to disrespect Veterans and the United States, they are taking a knee to show they feel that something is NOT okay. Things have not been dealt with in this country in appropriate ways, and these players, who know they hold huge impacts on people, are taking a stand. Random subject to bring up I know.
Honestly, I find myself to be a more quiet person. That being said, if there was something I felt very passionate about, you better believe I will be supporting it and taking part in a protest.
- Jessi Spain
Wow, that is crazy to me. Total abuse of power against the freedom of speech and expression. In a different decade and century I guess Americans so strongly believed in the United States superiority to the rest of the world that we were willing to go against our own people when they were expressing their rights. I feel that in our more progressive society, despite a current conservative government, freedom of expression is more appreciated. -Conner Scallan TTH 11:00
Like a lot of the previous comments, I also can't believe that Texas State actually suspended those 10 people and the writer of the editorial. It's crazy to me that I walk the same grounds as someone who was kicked out because they protested for a cause they believed in. I also found it interesting that the school is 'yellow' meaning they have policies and rules possibly infringing on our rights. Thankfully things have changed. At least that's what they want us to think.
Shannon D. TTH 11
Austin Cowan TR 2:00pm
After listening to this interview and watching the video it is a surprise to a current Texas State student like me to find out that past students have been expelled. When I examine the first amendment I believe they had every right to protest the way they did. Further examination into this cause would be nice because the school claimed that the protest caused a disruption. I would like to learn more about this incident. I believe the San Marcos 10 had the right to protest and should not have been suspended from school.
If I was to protest like the San Marcos 10 it would either be most likely for political or environmental reasons. If the government ever tried to restrict the political rights of American citizens I would fight against that. If the San Marcos 10 took place present-day I would have an issue with their suspension. I would also protest for the environment. Society needs to take care of the environment because it takes care of us. Saving endangered species, fighting the build-up of litter and production of greenhouse gases are all examples of environmental causes I would protest for.
Austin C. TR 2:00 pm
After listening to these videos I believe that the 10 students who were kicked out of school, had their GPA's dropped to 0 and denied any school hours had their constitutional rights denied completely. The first amendment gives us the right to free speech and free assembly which is what the students of southwest university were practicing. In no way shape or form do I believe that the actions taken place against these students were fair or lawful. It blows my mind that the school got away with this and the courts stood behind the dean. I did not know that Texas state university was a "yellow light" school until I watched this video. With that being said I believe that I would happily protest anything that I believed wasn't right such as constitutional rights being denied. I think we live in a world where people try to go around the law and get away with mistreatment of others and I don't think that's okay.
Amanda stewart 11am
Josh M. 2pm TuTh
For me Texas State went a bit overboard in its handling of the situation. The SM10, as well as the other students, had every right as free Americans to protest the war. I think as long as no one gets hurt and a free flow of ideas are communicated then to me it's fair game. I personally would not have gotten involved in the protest regardless of what I believed about the war because I'm not really looking to get kicked out of school or arrested or worse. I would just focus on my studies and let someone else do the protesting.
Caroline M.
T & TR 2 pm
I am completely shocked that this was how Texas State (then Southwest University) handled students protesting the Vietnam War. They were non-violently and silently protesting, about as peaceful as you can get. It is a hocking and disappointing that they were expelled and their GPA's were lowered to zero; I am almost certain that this is not how the University would have handled this today. People protest anything in the quad, from abortion to gay rights to feminist movements. You name it, and it has probably been protested in the quad. I wonder why it was so different back then; it makes me realize that we are making leaps and bounds as a nation every day, even though sometimes it might not like seem it. There are many protests I would want to get involved with within the quad, but I get more interested in environmental protests than anything. This is something that is very important to me, and I hope to do something within this field as a career one day. The way I see it, we have only one Earth, so taking care of our planet now is more important than ever. I love when I see protests going on in the quad- power to the first amendment!
Maci N
T/TH 2-3:20
I find the juxtaposition from then Southwest Texas State University and the current Texas State University philosophies on protesting interesting. Texas State does it's best to allow students to voice their opinions and stand up for what they believe in. In fact, it's such a huge aspect of our university identity that we have an area where people can say whatever they please without fear of being persecuted for their beliefs. Personally I think it's appalling that students were expelled for a peaceful protest. The San Marcos Ten was not about protesting in a violent matter, rather they were protesting the violence of the Vietnam War. I also found it interesting that the NPR report broadcast took place less than a month after the terrorist attacks of 9/11/2001. As far as participating in a protest goes, I have not taken part in a protest in my past, but if the cause was something I was passionate about, I would definitely take part in a protest since I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and should be allowed to protest what they deem unjust.
Without a doubt I believe we're currently living in the most free era. We still have a long way to go as far as freedom of speech is concerned, but it wasn't at all surprising to me to learn what happened to students at Texas State in the past. In the 60's America was still dealing with the Civil Rights movement, meaning that clearly freedom of speech was not that "free" if it took a giant movement to earn people rights. From discussing some of the cases in class involving freedom of speech, it was evident that freedom of speech evolved even in courts over the years and slowly became more liberal and "free". The same is true for our university. It- like America and the U.S. court system- is becoming more diverse in terms of free speech over time. Nowadays, students don't have to worry about getting expelled for expressing their free speech rights in the quad, whereas at the time of the Vietnam War it was clearly a problem.
As far as protests go, I've been involved in several regarding environmental issues, like semi-recently, the Dakota Pipeline issue. I'm drawn to fighting for environmental issues since the environment needs our help the most because its voiceless. Just knowing I'm able to help in some way and give back through peaceful protesting is really rewarding.
-Abriana D.
Ericnisha C. TTH 11:00am
I think the expelled of the students was wrong because they was not going against any laws, they had the freedom to speak even though they was not speaking they had the right to protest. They got in trouble for others making noise and so call disturbing the peace, they didn’t ask for trouble they just want a peaceful protest. I’m glad that the students didn’t let this one issue stop them from believing and get back on their feet and finishing school. I don’t mind joining a peaceful protest and that one was peaceful and understandable so yea I would’ve joined if I was at Texas State at that time.
It's encouraging to hear stories about others standing up for what they believed, especially during the Vietnam War. It must've taken guts to make the stand those 10 students made, regardless of the time period; although, I'd think doing something like protesting might've been met with more resistance in the 70's than today. How many of us would be willing to protest at the Stallions, if we knew the end result was expulsion? It must've been a tough choice, but sometimes your principles/values have to be greater than the system. I'd like to think in my finest hour, I would stand up for the things I believe, such as equality and justice.
What strikes me is the fact that they said the suspension was on the grounds that the protest wasn't causing a disruption, but it had the POTENTIAL to cause a disruption. I feel like this doesn't follow the caveat that calls to action that result in an imminent action are the only thing not protect by free speech. I admire those we are willing to sacrifice so much for something they believe in. I would definitely participate in a peaceful protest, but I don't know if I would stay if I was at risk of expulsion. I participated in the Women's March, and the No Ban/No Wall rally at the Texas State capitol. I believe that peaceful protests are one of the best ways we as citizens can participate in the democratic process between election years.
Jackie G.
Jessica P T/TH 2pm
I remember when I was considering Texas State University and we were being led by a guide and they told us the funny story of the horse statue and how that is where students can come express freely whatever is on their mind. They warned us that it can get intense but it is a place for free speech. As appalled as I am for the expulsion of the students, I believe that this was set up for how campus at Texas State is today. Without that, I don't believe free speech would be as important or promoted as it is now. Nevertheless, I am in shock with how the students were treated for exercising the First Amendment. But, again, where would we be without these life lessons?
I think the repercussions for protesting were a bit overboard, I understand maybe temporarily suspension since the topic seemed to be sensitive but not enough to take kick them out and drop their GPA to 0. Overall it was still a peaceful protest so Texas State should have not taken any actions at all in my opinion. We are allowed to protest that’s a given in the first amendment so I don’t know how or why Texas State thought that the students were in the wrong for doing so. I personally would have protested just as I protest now in topics I firmly believe in and I’m glad that I am able to do so without being punished. I see that Texas State and the protest rights have come a long way, being that it is almost one a week that we have a protest going on in the stallions.
Alejandra Avila
T,Th 2:00PM
Mariah Whitley, T/TH 2:00pm
I feel a little shocked that the San Marcos Ten were unable to win their case in court. It is interesting to me that they were suspended and expelled. Many of the original protestors left after being threatened of suspension, however, the final ten remained and I find that to be very admirable and brave. They went through a procedural hearing with the school's board of regents. They were denied the ability to attend school because their anti-war protest of the Vietnam war was considered to be an interference with the "flow of education." The argument was that the protest could be too loud and we talked about that in class. I don't believe that this was the case.
From what I heard, it was a non-violent and peaceful protest, so it seems as though the school just wanted to suppress unfavorable speech. You would think that by 1969, freedom of speech would be more protected, even on a college campus that is also a public school. I find it interesting that Texas State is considered a "yellow light" school, meaning that there are still some instances in which freedom of speech is not always guaranteed for certain hot topic issues.
If I could protest for a social issue, I would protest against the rescinding of the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program. I think it is wrong to abandon 800,000 young immigrants who work hard and are just as good in terms of legal status as American citizens are. They did not have a choice in coming here and it should be our duty as decent human beings to help them have a better life.
I really love this blog topic because it is so interesting to see what Texas State was like back then. As many of these comments will probably say, the nature of the university is so different now. I've seen partially nude protests, and people either listen to the message or keep walking. I've come to love the stallions statue for its free speech purpose, even when the protest goes against my beliefs.
I think this was absolutely an infringement on the Freedom of Speech of the San Marcos ten. However, we have to consider the time and place of this situation. Something I've learned from this class is to keep in mind that the results of these cases are so shocking to us because we've already moved on from a lot of these issues. Because of cases like this one, our understanding of what is a violation of free speech has expanded to create a world where this just seems crazy.
I've participated in some protests on campus, such as those involving women's rights to abortions. If my schedule permits it, I will absolutely join the protests that surround values that I support. However, I do this with no consideration of consequences because I never thought there could be any.
Monique F. 2 p.m.
It is completely terrifying to me that those ten students got expelled immediately and their GPA basically got evaporated into thin air for politely protesting. They didn't violate any amendments or any thing of that nature. They simply protested in peace, which we, as American citizens are allowed to do. It is very interesting that this happened on this campus. This campus is famous for anybody speaking their minds in the quad area especially. I think as long as you are respectful and open-minded, there is nothing wrong with saying what you want to say to the world.
Bryant B. T/TH 2PM
Madelyn B
The contrast between how the "San Marcos Ten" were treated and how I believed the same situation would be handled today is drastic. While it is surprising that it was handled that way by the University, I think the true injustice is that it was upheld in court even though it explicitly violated their right to protest. The Vietnam war was very controversial subject matter at this time and I believe the University acted unfairly out of fear. I have seen so many people by the Stallion screaming vulgar and offensive things in my time on campus and its crazy that a silent and peaceful protest was reacted to relatively not long ago.
I think the right protest is a very important thing to exercise and protect. I would feel very inclined to protest personally by any violation of rights regarding women's equality, rights to healthcare, etc.
Jacob A.
The San Marcos 10 were essentially martyrs(that didn't die) for 1st amendment rights on Campus. With the current campus administration I think they are more apt to side with free speech issues than the 1969 Dean. I think the ruling in 1969 was upheld because of fear. I read in another comment about the fear from University administration to act this way. I think this is true. It is highly possibly the University could've lost key donors if the punishment would have been any less than expelling the students. If a cause is near and dear to me I would consider a protest, but I think there are other ways to go about changing opinions. This capitalist country runs on money, so wherever the money is, 9 times out of 10 that's where the decision will be.
This is crazy! I never even knew this took part on our campus. I completely agree with the students on this protest. The fact that the were completely denied their free speech right ALL THE WHILE they were not causing any harm to anyone at all. I find it irritating that the judge ruled "interference with the educational process" when there was absolutely no evidence to support that. And also the administration did not even tell them what their punishment would be which is totally illegal. This is college, not High School. I do not think I would ever hold my ground that long to something I would protest but right-on to these kids who made such an awesome everlasting impact.
Sara L.
This is crazy! I never even knew this took part on our campus. I completely agree with the students on this protest. The fact that the were completely denied their free speech right ALL THE WHILE they were not causing any harm to anyone at all. I find it irritating that the judge ruled "interference with the educational process" when there was absolutely no evidence to support that. And also the administration did not even tell them what their punishment would be which is totally illegal. This is college, not High School. I do not think I would ever hold my ground that long to something I would protest but right-on to these kids who made such an awesome everlasting impact.
Alex Glenn T/Th 11am
I think the punishments to the students went way overboard. Lowering all of their GPAs and suspending/expelling them seems completely unnecessary because they were just expressing their First Amendment rights. However, i do feel like the subject they chose to protest about was super sensitive at the time, which probably led to the exaggerated consequences. I love the stallions because it's where Texas State students can exercise their free speech and stand up for what they believe in. I'm not one that's really interested in protest, but if i had to protest it would probably be against abortion. I have always been very "pro life" and abortion is against my religious beliefs.
First of all i cant believe i had never heard of this story till now. Its crazy to think that they were kicked out of school just for expressing their beliefs non violently, its a complete violation of the First Amendment. But for the time period in which this occurred makes it not as surprising that this happened, because there were lots of injustices occurring at this time in the United States. It makes me realize how much progress has been made. Even though there is still a lot of work to be done in the United States, there has been a tremendous amount of progress, specifically regarding freedom of speech at Texas state. Because now at TXST we can always express our beliefs non violently, and we constantly see peaceful protests on campus.
Tyler H. TTH 2PM
I am less shocked than my fellow students at the actions of Southwest Texas State. Of course, the kind of silencing of expression that the school participated in was as egregious then as it would be now, but I think there was a lot more precedence for that kind of thing back then. Black and white images of protestors being sprayed by water and otherwise abused by police come to mind.
As for movements I'd protest for, I think I'd be most inclined to rally for something like net neutrality. Our entire communications infrastructure is changing and, unless we are educated and active, the market will once again put its own interests before those of the people.
If the energy in 1969 was the same as it was in 2001 after the terrorist attack in New York, I can understand how much guts it took to protest the Vietnam war and how others would see them going against their country.
I was in first or second grade when the Twin Towers were hit and I remember the general tone was to fight back against those who had inflicted harm onto us. It was the United States taking a stand against evil, from what I recall.
I imagine it was the same back in 1969, the United States against the evil of Communism. Anyone against the war therefore was unpatriotic and ill of mind.
I found it interesting that one of the protesters was previously in the Army. Most were saying going against the war was being unappreciative of the sacrifice soldiers made, and yet here is a former soldier protesting.
Jessica B. - T, TH 2 PM
I want to be surprised by the school's reactions, but I'm not. We touched base on this in class the other day, but many schools care about their image more than most things. Especially because that's what draws new students to their schools. Which, in the result, brings money back to the school. If a school has a poor reputation, it deters parents from having their children go there. The school should've celebrated the fact that they have a diverse student group who pays attention to what's happening in the world outside of their books. As a first-generation American, bisexual woman of color, I often feel like I'm on the negative end of many protests. Existing feels like a protest at this point. However, that hasn't deterred me from marching down Congress during the Women's March in Austin. I have gone from door-to-door to request that our Representatives don't vote for the "Bathroom Bill'. I call my Reps and Senators when I can for issues that violate human rights. I do protest against the tyranny of certain politicians even when the issue at hand doesn't involve me. That's what being an American means for me; fighting for others who cannot fight for themselves.
I feel like since this happened in a different time era a lot of people were conservative and others were opposed to the war, so I'm not surprised that Southwest University now Texas State University expelled the students. However, I don't feel it was fair to the students since it was unconstitutional, because it violated their First Amendment right. I did not know before the video and hearing the broadcast report that this had happened in the past, which is strange considering how much Texas State University has changed since then when it comes to free speech in the quad.
Olivia Hansen - T/TH 2PM
Wow, I had no idea something like this happened at our beloved Texas State! I would have never expected or hoped we would treat our students that way. But, things were much different back then, so all I can say is that it's unfortunate that some of us were brainwashed to believe in such ideals. The students shouldn't have gotten in trouble, especially because they were only protesting in a silent, nonviolent way. I hope that sort of thing doesn't still happen here. I still get just as annoyed as the next person by all those protesters in the quad, but it's nothing that people shouldn't be allowed to do if they feel strongly about a certain topic. I have never participated in any type of protest, nor do I intend to, but I think if I were to be part of one, it would definitely be for an environmental cause. I believe that many of us treat our Earth very poorly and that information is not being spread and encouraged as much as it should be. I also don't see how many people could oppose to that protest, because we are all inhabitants of this beautiful planet and should want to preserve it.
Jason L. T/TH 2PM
Hearing about these protests and the actions that followed the protest surprised me because I had no idea this had happened on our campus, but it does make sense to now know about it considering the larger conflicts going on in the nation and at different universities. I don't agree with the fact that these students were expelled from the university with a 0.0 GPA. I felt a much smaller disciplinary action could've been put in place. One aspect I did respect was when an administrator described the disrespect he felt after serving in the army in places such as Vietnam.
I have never taken part in a protest nor do I see myself taking part in the future. I believe it is a big waste of my time and I can be using that time to do many other things that I enjoy.
Justin Zuloaga 11-12:20 T TH
It’s appalling to me because, in my honest opinion, I believe that they were not doing any disruption within the learning process. Considering the decision from the court case Tinker vs. Des Moines, we know that students have free expression rights unless it disrupts the educational process. It’s extremely saddening to me that the protesters were unable to even walk across the stage at graduation because of their demonstrative peaceful protests. Throughout all the court cases that we’ve reviewed thus far, I find that although we have definitively widened the scope of Free Speech, there are times and times again where the individual who was doing said protest, was the one that turned out to be on the losing side of the court ruling. I am a firm believer that many things still must change within our society to compel an argument for “free speech” truly means free speech. The only causes I can come to think of that would spark an interest in protesting for myself would most likely be some sort of unethical Political debacle that would be going on at the time.
Ana C - T/TH 2pm
I think it's interesting to to explore the history of the stallioins free speech zone on campus and better understand why it matters that we have one and that we can utilize it to excercise our free speech rights. It's disapointing and sad that the administration at SWTS punished the SM 10's for trying to exercise their free speech rights. I think under President Trauth, the students would not have been suspended. Last semester I briefly took part of the Sanctuary campus protest that was taking signatures for TXST to become a sanctuary campus. My experience was very positive. Even though I didn't know most of the other participants, there was a sense of solidarity that was empowering. I remember being especialy dissapointed with governor Abbot's response to Sanctuary campus protests, but dispite the outcome, the open and free communication between student protestors and President Trauth was evident and, I think, a good example of free speech being protected and exercised well.
It's no surprise the university would take action on such a miniscule protest. Given the political landscape of the time, it was heavily conservative and it was the Alma Matter of Lyndon B. Johnson.
What strikes me is the confusion the judge must have had when not applying Tinker v. Des Moines. It's clear in that court case when students were protesting the Vietnam War by wearing black arm bands, the ruling went in favor of Tinker, reading: "In our system, state operated schools may not be enclaves of totalitarianism. School officials do not possess absolute power over students."
The San Marcos 10 simply had signs and weren't yelling or disturbing the peace, but according to the ruling of the school administrators, the student body was disturbing the nearby classess.
If the San Marcos 10 would've appealed this case, it's highly likely the ruling would favor the students if the court followed stare decisis.
-Austin Kinney 11am TR
I think it is crazy and wonderful to see how far Texas State has come since those times. I cannot believe they were expelled from the university because of their protest, but times were totally different back then. It makes me happy to see how Texas State has changed and that we are now known for our right to speak and peacefully protest on campus.
Although the times were different and people were not used to speaking so freely, I find it a little weird that they were expelled for peacefully protesting. I didn't see anything about them yelling or obnoxiously distracting others, so I feel as though expelling the students was pretty extreme.
I cannot think of a particular cause that would motivate me to take part in a protest. I am not too knowledgeable on politics, and I am not one to actively go out and participate in protests.
Gabriella C.
2 p.m. TTh
I'm glad that Texas State has come so far since the results of this protest. I believe that the students were exercising their First Amendment rights, and the fact that they ruled on OTHER people's behaviors rather than the peaceful protestors just shows the loopholes that can be found in cases such as these that involve the First Amendment. It's shocking to me that they were denied reinstatement and had to finish their degrees somewhere else or even 20 years later. The GPA dropping is even more excessive and I could not see anything like that happening in today's world. I believe that peaceful protesting should always be okay and I have peacefully protested on campus myself, including after Trump got elected, which was the largest yet somehow still peaceful protest I have seen on campus in my 2 and a half years here.
Alyssa N.
T/Th 2 pm
During the time of the Vietnam War, there was a lot of tension, and when it comes to something as big as a war, there will be more opposition and fear on both sides. There were a lot of injustices that were happening during that time period. Just look one year later at the events that took place at Kent State in Ohio; protests turned to bloodshed. All of these situations are an obvious break of student's 1st Amendment rights. Now, the time when they released the NPR interview after 911, there was yet again more stress on the country. Anytime national security comes into play, there will be more division between individuals. This was also the time when the country began to implement the Patriot Act, which was a violation of individual's 1st Amendment rights as well. At this time, as was the case in 1969, civil liberties were being hindered for the sake of national security. It's really interesting to see how national crisis effect our judicial system. Now, will there come a crisis that changes the course of American history and severely chops away at 1st Amendment rights, and if so, how will people handle it?
David S.
T/Th 2pm
It's amazing to see how far Texas State University has come from letting their students practice their first amendment rights. Very often now you see students protesting at the stallions and no harm or punishment is made towards them by the college. It was unfair to hear that the San Marcos 10 were expelled and had their GPA dropped to 0. They had all the right to do what they did, especially since they were not being disruptive. I am surprised to hear that the judge didn't favor the students; but then again, the cases we have been discussing in class had outcomes that surprised me too. It was nice that an administrator from campus saw the rights the students had and spoke about it; although it's upsetting he was let go because of it. I wasn't even aware that the stallions was a place of protest that dates all the way to those times; what a nice fact about the university I am attending.
Pamela O.
T/TH 11 AM
The San Marcos 10's rights were seemingly infringed upon. They for sure had a right to protest and whether or not the crowd that gathered disrupted class, they themselves were not the cause of the disruption. I feel lucky to grow up in a time where my rights are more respected here at Texas State, although that video from the star seems to point we are not completly there. Perhaps one day though. I would have probably joined in on the protest, because the vietnam war was kind of useless in my opinion.
Sean M
I actually am not surprised at how the university reacted. The reactions seem to be a common trend during this time. According to the First Amendment the students did have the right to peacefully assemble and express their rights to free speech. Although the students were not physically speaking the signs had a message on them. In the universities defense they did send out a notice that there would be repercussions to this protest and that is exactly what happened. The courts said that the students were not being loud, but that the distraction was what was going on because of the protest. This could also be true. A disruption in the educational process could have been happening because of student distraction by the protest and also administration having to get involved. The case really comes down to perception. I am a person of rules and they clearly had the constitutional right to protest, they were breaking a university rule. It is crazy to me to see the difference between then and now. This just goes to show how time evolves issues.
Megan R
I will admit I was shocked to hear that students got suspended and had their GPA’s dropped to zero all for protesting. I personally think that was unfair. It is understandable that the time period was much different back then. I’m thankful in the sense that freedom of speech is interepteted much different and is more acceptable. I would have cried if my GPA was dropped to a zero just because I was expressed my opinion.
Leean V
TTh 11am
*expelled
Colton D.
Although I do think that it's morally wrong to punish the students for their expression of free speech, I personally am not a fan of protests. I feel like they usually dissuade opponents from listening, and plenty of protest devolve into violence, anger, or chaos. There isn't really anything that I'd protest over–I feel as if there are better ways to get things done.
Charles M.
TTh 11am
I'm glad Texas State allows students to express their beliefs now. It's crazy to think that less than 50 years ago, we weren't really allowed to express ourselves and share thoughts like we can now. I feel like the 10 students were treated unfairly. To be expelled and have their credits reduced to 0 for a nonviolent protest is ridiculous to me. I understand they were warned beforehand that there would be consequences, but they could've been a little more specific.
I've protested some establishments on my own, but never marched around with a sign or anything...that's not to say I wouldn't...but it would have to be something that I'm really passionate about.
Being born and raised in San Marcos, I can't believe this is the first time I'm hearing this story - wow! I believe the ten students were treated unfairly because it was a silent protest, yet they were being suspended because of the people around them being disruptive; to be suspended for a year and have their GPA dropped to a 0, is I think, a bit extreme. As others have mentioned though, it's great to see the progress Texas State University has made since then and it's great to see students express their freedom of speech. Thinking of what causes would motivate me to partake in a protest, I would stand up (or silently sit) for my DACA friends and women reproductive rights.
Alana Z.
TTh 11am
Alejandro Bazan T/TH 2pm
In my opinion, I’m all for a protest, if you want to protest, go for it. But it has to be peaceful, which the people who protested were probably peacefully doing it. It’s crazy that Texas State was so strict about something like that back then, because now people do it in the quad all the time. And I think that’s good, because everyone should be able to protest for whatever reason they feel they should protest. I think those students were treated unfairly, to being expelled because that is not a good reason to get expelled, they weren’t doing anything but expressing their opinions. However, it is now 2017 and something like that won’t happen with the way the US and the university has progressed and I’m kind of glad that we don’t live in that era anymore.
Carter W
It's interesting to see how society changes overtime. The use of free speech on campus has become far more lenient and is almost to be expected after certain events. What happened to the 10 students then is not something that is likely to occur again under the same circumstances. As far as protesting goes, I would be most likely to protest any legislation, institution or organisation that attempted to censor speech. YouTube is getting dangerously close right now.
Being that almost every day I walk past the stallions, I see groups of protesters gathered, giving their opinions and sharing their beliefs it’s hard to imagine a time where students were punished for exercising their first amendment right. And to go to the extent of not only suspending the students but dropping their GPA to 0 is ridiculous. But I’m glad to see how much we have grown as a university where students are encouraged to express themselves freely especially during a time like now. NaomiG
I'm shocked that these students would be expelled from school for protesting a war. I think if that happened now there would probably be an outrage on free speech. It seems very authoritarian to not allow people to protest what they find wrong and assume everyone will have the same stance on war. I'm a big believer in free speech, even if it's something that I disagree with or even find offensive I believe that everyone should be free to speak their mind. I'm glad that we live in a time now where speaking your mind is encouraged by our university.
Austin B - 2:00-3:20 T/TH
The contrast of Texas State during the time of the San Marcos Ten until now is not only shocking, I believe it is somewhat relieving. Our country is most certainly in a time of unrest for many different people and for many different reasons. 2017 feels to most like a year in which many things have taken a step backwards. However, i believe if you look from an informed point of view there is actually a concsious effort by a lot of people from all walks of life who realize this country is great because of diversity and free speech and those ideals are always going to be fought for, as they have been since the beginning. It seems cliche that this has been a problem since our country's inception, but part of what makes Texas State so great is that it plays a huge role as a public university in defending free speech and diversity. Hopefully politics will no longer influence injustices, as they seemed to do here in the case of the San Marcos Ten. LBJ being an alumni and the country's obvious tendency to suppress speech in times of war had an influence on the "ten." In the current climate, with Washington seeming as an utter mad-house, Texas State still has the free speech area at the stallions, but as most do not know, it is actually supposed to be campus wide. Texas State is also a hispanic serving institution and now a majority, minority serving university. I think is incredible to show the progress from what happened in 1969 in an obvious suppression of free speech as the San Marcos Ten attempted to peacefully protest and seems like something that would never happen in todays day and age, especially at Texas State.
There are quite a few things i would protest against, such as the return of a military draft, and many of the newer problems in legislation such as cyber privacy and suppression of privacy, and the now longtime blatantly corrupt, for profit political system
I'm surprised that Texas State treated those ten students so harshly. I understand their views were unpopular at the time, but to have thousands of dollars and long hours of GPA flushed down the drain for peacefully expressing a political opinion seems wrong on every level. The only protest I could see myself participating in would be the following an instance of grand government disclosure in a negative light, such as the leaking of the Pentagon Papers.
I believe that when Texas State expelled students for protesting the Vietnam war they were violating the First Amendment. It is very shocking to see that Texas State was not allowing this protest, when today we see numerous amounts of protest every week. Another thing that is shocking is that the students were completely peaceful, and were not disrupting anyone. They were simply just trying to make a statement. I don’t think this would ever happen at Texas State today, standing up for what you believe in is important. I trust that Texas State supports that, and has changed a lot since 1969. I feel that everyone has the ability to express their opinions no matter how vast it might be.
It doesn’t make sense to me why the University agreed that the students protesting were not directly disturbing the educational process but the effect of the protest may cause some disruption. This doesn’t follow the precedent in the Tinker case. I believe if the same event occurred today we would have the opposite outcome. Peaceful protests are an essential part of the dissemination of ideas. I would certainly assemble for protests advocating women’s and minority rights. Although the Hazelwood case was after this incident, Justice Brennan’s dissent resonates from the future by acknowledging that the students are ultimately “under the mercy of the school’s priorities.”
Pablo M.
11am
Ryder B T/Th 11am "They said we weren't causing any disruptions, but that there could potentially be disruption."
This is an example of limiting free speech due to the insecurity of a university and the government at that time. A Vietnam veteran's opinions on the conflict he just returned from should be valued and listened to, rather than silenced and suspended in order to maintain the illusion of a "patriotic" and supported public opinion of what the United States interests in Vietnam were. Under freedom of speech and protest in the first amendment, this is unfair and unconstitutional treatment of citizens peacefully protesting with no immediate threat of danger, violence, or disruption of the university's classes on their end.
I have noticed a few arguments and protests that grab my attention and support more so than others. I refer to these as the "common sense" arguments. These are typically our president or other government officials skewing equal rights and freedom of speech across various platforms including but not limited to- women's rights over their body, the athletes protesting police brutality of colored people, the athletes' unifying and protesting the lack of respect to their freedom of speech, voting rights in United States territories, and/or the effects of human industrialization on the earth and our climate. All of which, when attended to, can greatly progress our country and the quality of life for all of it's citizens.
First off, I thought it was really cool that people were protesting at the stallions fifty years ago. It's not that I thought people weren't protesting back then, I just never thought about it. I also think it's crazy that the ten students were suspended, and then expelled for continuing to protest when there was no violence or disturbing classes for that to stand on. If this was happening today, I could definitely see myself standing by the stallions if it was something I truly believed in.
Gabriela M. TTH 11-12:20
I was shocked at how bad the students were punished, having their GPA's dropped to zero and being suspended for expressing themselves by utilizing their free speech right. From what I took, it seemed that the protest itself was peaceful but it was the controversy around it that caused disruption in the universities opinion. I feel that because of the content of the protest being the Vietnam War which was a really sensitive topic at the time that could've influenced their decision a lot. Personally, I would join in a protest if I really cared for the cause, I think it's important that we use our voices and stand up for what we believe in.
Raquel R T/TH 2pm
It blows my mind that these students has such harsh punishment for doing something that students at Texas State do almost everyday now without any consequences. The Dean even said "they were not disrupting or causing any problems, yet there was a possibility that they might cause problems." My thoughts on that are- until there actually is a problem, there isn't one.
It's very encouraging to hear stories about people who stand up for what they believe is right. Personally I'm not sure I would have stayed if I was threatened with suspension and loosing all of my credits. I was also was shocked to hear that the one student who went back to Southwest Texas to graduate even after all of that, wasn't able to walk because of a "computer issue". That's just cruel.
It was very interesting to me to see how much has changed over the years, especially seeing it happen at a spot I walk by almost everyday.
I'm honestly not surprised by this, but what happened was obviously wrong. The San Marcos Ten and the other protesters had their right to free speech stomped on by the university. The Vietnam War was very divisive in the U.S, so obviously protests would occur but there would also be people who supported the government's decision to go to war. The administration of the university showed where they stood on the issue by suspending the students. I think political and social protests are something I could do, especially with Trump and ICE deporting people, a protest against that is something I could get behind.
I think it is scary how history continues to repeat itself without any real solution to make a change. I have no doubt that if we were to get into another costly, drawn-out war, the same, " take it or leave" mentally would possibly rear its ugly head again. The fact that a public university had the right to deny the students who stood their ground, education is disgusting and the fact that they used the fear of being drafted as a scare tactic to get a large part of the following to drop out, is even worse. I'm a bit sad that these students didn't try to overturn and overturn until it made to the USSC. I'm curious to know how the ruling would have been handled at that level. As for the reason that would cause me to protest, I am currently protesting the NFL based on their issues with players silently protesting in the name of fighting for eqaulity, I am also protesting the person in White House, not my president, for obvious reasons... including his views on silent protesting.
Ramzi A. T/Th
As someone who is on his 4th year at Texas State I have to say that my proudest moment as a Bobcat are when I see my classmates standing around those stallions fighting for their beliefs and making sure their voices are heard. The fact that these students rallied for a cause with their class mates without causing trouble is a commendable not damnable offense. the fact that the dean disbanded the protest due to there being a potential for trouble is laughable.
One of my proudest moments as a bobcat was when I saw my classmates all gather by the stallions to protest Trump's election into office. My pride didn't stem from agreeing with their cause. I was proud because so many people from my school stood together against something they didn't agree with. Protesting is patriotic no matter what anyone tells you, fighting against inequality and making sure your voice is heard are some of the most American things you can do, and are quite literally apart of the beliefs that formed this country
Jayci H. T/Th
It is surprising to me that Texas State said the San Marcos 10 interfered with the general learning process. I am thankful that people at the stallions may speak freely about all kinds of things today. I believe protesting is imperative and the fact that we have the freedom to do so is what makes us American.
Bryson H. T/Th 11-12:20
I think San Marcos 10 and the other individuals involved had every right to protest. There 1st amendment right to peacefully assembly was definitely infringed upon and its scary how this problem continues to reflect in our nation today.
I find it difficult to imagine a time where the punishment was so harsh for the students. After everything we have learned they didn't seem to be doing anything wrong. Peaceful protest is such a normal part of society today and that is for many things. I am happy I am alive now and get to experience a very different world compared to those who came before me.
First of all i cant believe i had never heard of this story till now. Its crazy to think that they were kicked out of school just for expressing their beliefs non violently, its a complete violation of the First Amendment. But for the time period in which this occurred makes it not as surprising that this happened, because there were lots of injustices occurring at this time in the United States. It makes me realize how much progress has been made. Even though there is still a lot of work to be done in the United States, there has been a tremendous amount of progress, specifically regarding freedom of speech at Texas state. Because now at TXST we can always express our beliefs non violently, and we constantly see peaceful protests on campus.
-Collin D
Kyndal Runnels T/TH 2-3:20
I don't agree with their punishments at all, the school's approach was way too aggressive and one-sided. Those students had the right to speak up for what they believed in, the school could definitely try to get them to leave because it's on school grounds but they 100% have the right to act on their rights of free speech. To this day, in 2017, students are still lining up in the quad to express their opinions, so the actions of those few students some 40 something years ago set the precedent that we as young adults need to to fight for what we believe in otherwise we'll just go unheard and be pushed out; which I think is really cool that generations later we're still upholding.
In the case of abortion I would definitely be motivated to take part in a protest. Abortion has always been a big issue in our country, and over the years people have received a lot of backlash for being pro abortion and I don't agree with that backlash at all. So if the issue presented itself I would for sure voice my opinions on the views of abortion.
I don't agree with the punishment given to the 10 students at Texas State. It was something way to harshly, making all their GPA's a 0 and expelling them from school seems a little extreme. They had the right of free speech and I think if this were to happen now, there would be a lot of rage from many students on campus. The students had the right to speak up on what they believed on, especially if they were doing it in a peaceful manner.
I'm glad these types of punishments are no longer given to students who chose to protest at Texas State.
Yajaira S.
Texas State has changed so much over the years. I strongly believe these students were treated unfairly. All the students had rights to free speech and should be able to stand up for what they believe. The punishment seemed very harsh.
If that situation happened today, the result would have been very different. I'm glad this campus is a lot more open and let students express what they believe in.
Alexander Wymore T-TH 11 am
I think that the way that the school handled the students who were peacefully protesting was a little harsh. Although I can understand both sides. The school was trying to protect the student body as a whole and the students where trying to publicly stand up for what they believed in. I think it could of been handled better by both sides but with that said the the atmosphere of those times was very emotional for everyone. It is hard to say how it could been handled better, but considering Southwest Texas at that time was known for being a little controversial because of other protests, the students should of been allowed to express themselves. After all isn't that what college is for. Maybe should of just went about it in a different way.
Riki Van Meter
I love that Texas State has become as free as it is today. Even though I don’t always agree with what people express on campus I respect their right to have an opinion. Personally, I am not a very expressive person publicly so I don’t think I would be able to participate in a protest. Though, when I do see protests that I agree with I will stand in solidarity with those speaking their minds. For example, when anti-abortion protests come to campus and display horrifying and graphic images, without fail fellow students will stand against them displaying facts instead of fear.
Allie Spaulding T/Th @ 2
I think it's very surprising to see such a strong negative reaction to a nonviolent protest on a campus, especially on one that now prides itself on its free speech areas. The students shouldn't have gotten such harsh punishments that railroaded their college careers at the school. I don't believe the San Marcos 10 were disrupting anyone's learning. People protest in the quad at the stallions all the time and the only thing it's ever disrupted for me was my walk to class. Everyone has the right to free speech, which means they should be able to voice their opinions on things happening as long as they do it peacefully.
Asia T/TH 11am
It is almost mind-blowing to see the difference between then and now at Texas State! Taking society's political climate into consideration, I can understand the reactions from both sides. Personally, I think the punishment for the students was entirely too harsh. I would have protested along these students if my beliefs called for it! This was interesting to learn about and it connected to all of the cases we are learning in class!
It was very unfair of Texas State to take away certain rights behind protesting and freedom of speech. Thankfully, today's society is more accepting of free speech and Texas State has evolved to be a very outspoken community. In order to establish law and order from both our government and our people, there must not be any infringement of freedom of speech as long as it does not inflict harm to our country or slander individuals and their liberty. Hopefully our current leadership in our government does not set us back on all of the progress the U.S. has accomplished with our freedom of speech policies.
I, for one, am not surprised whatsoever about how strict Texas State University used to be. Texas is a very conservative state and protesting is often frowned upon. Everyone has an opinion on freedom of speech and believes that there is a time and place. Currently, our student government is trying to approve a “Free Speech day” where everyone gets to say whatever they want. My question is how far will this day go? What EXACTLY is it that people want to say that they aren’t allowed to say already? It just really makes you wonder. I firmly believe that some people like to use “freedom of speech” as an excuse to say ugly things about people or communities. Although it is a very important freedom, people have a habit of taking advantage of it.
T-TH 2pm
I feel like it wasn't right how Texas State handled this situation. Their punishment was too harsh, I feel like the students should have got some type of warning. Due to the time period, back then it was more conservative and people didn't really speak on those types of things, I'm not surprised at what the University did. The causes that would motivate me to protest is political and social.
These days the freedom we have to express ourselves is taken for granted. The thought of fellow bobcats being punished for a non-violent protest is disturbing because of how diverse our campus has become. Even though it was during war-time people should always have the right to speak freely. The GPA of the ten students who spoke out against the war was destroyed unjustly. It's people being free to speak their mind and ideas that has made America great, and that wouldn't be possible without those who fought for their rights to free speech.
To be ridiculed for speaking what you believe is saddening. I could't have imagined what it would be like to go to a university like that. I am very proud to live in an era where speaking up and standing up for what you believe is exercised so openly. I think we are moving more and more forward toward acceptance and progressiveness. We need more people to speak up for that they stand for because we, the people, are strong in numbers and we can change things together.
It is a gross injustice that the students were expelled for nonviolent protesting. It is an infringement on their 1st amendment rights and I believe that the students punishment was much too harsh. It is surprising to me since today we have protests constantly on campus. I am so thankful that I attend this university today where we are aloud and encouraged to participate in First Amendment activities.
I personally think the students should have had the right to protest in a peaceful manner on campus. It would seem that the silent protest would not cause any disruption of classes or infringe on any students education. Although I believe this, the university could potentially argue that the protest cause a disturbance and therefore infringed on students ability to learn; what a university is design for. In cases such as Tinker v. Des Moines Independent School District, where students wore bands to protest the Vietnam War, students convictions were overturned because there was no evidence that the education process was disturbed. In listening to the MPR podcast, the narrator tells us that the protest was silent, but was very unpopular, and therefore perhaps caused a disturbance in the education process. Schools and Courts, places that are responsible for allowing the certain pursuits (ex education), are given authority to punish or remove behavior that inhibits these pursuits. I think that now this would not have been such a big issue at Texas State as we have a designated are of speech and are even encouraged to peacefully speak our minds. But we should be aware that we can be held accountable if our protest result in violence or disruption of education.
Elisamaria T T/TH 2:00
I feel very lucky to be apart of a campus that has changed in terms of freedom of speech and how it pertains to protests. Things like time period and society tie into how those students were affected. Although it isn't right, society was different then. If this were to happen now it would be handled so differently. In out society today, topics like this would be circulated enough to be openly talked about within protests without a problem. That being said, out society now is open to hearing opinions based on fake news, social media, etc. I don't normally participate in protests but I would if it were over social topics that I am interested.
Abigail Plant T/TH 2PM
I believe that these students had every right to protest the Vietnam War on campus. Sadly, I am not surprised at the actions of the university at that time, but in my opinion it is a huge injustice for expelling and reducing those students GPA's to 0's. They were being peaceful and nonviolent, and their schooling should not have been affected by protesting whatsoever. I am very glad that I live in a time that protesting is very common, and people are not afraid to speak their minds. The university is definitely more lenient with student protesting these days, and it is not uncommon to see students at the stallion speaking freely about what they believe in. I personally don't participate in many protests, but I have no idea where I would have stood or what I would be thinking if I were alive and at Southwest Texas during that time. I think that those students were very brave, and they are a great example to follow for standing up for what you believe in.
Avery M. T/TH 2PM
Like most people in the comments, I think that it is pretty crazy that there were not only expelled but also had their GPA's reduced to 0. I am even more surprised that the suspension was upheld by a judge under the guise of "interfering with the free flow of the educational process". I am also happy that the University is now more accepting of protest, regardless of it offends us or not because I believe that is what it takes to run a fair democracy. Everyone should get a voice, even if we disagree with their opinions. I think there are a few things that could get me to protest. I very much believe that if you stand for nothing you will fall for anything, but I don't think I would risk my chance at graduating for it, so I definitely commend the San Marcos 10 for their convictions in their own belief.
I think Texas State was out of line with punishing the students so harshly. As well as not informing the students that their consequence would be expulsion. I really want to know more about how this affected each of the students. I would protest for anything that I supported, I think protesting is a good way to show how you feel about policies to give lawmakers a chance to listen.
Amelia Mook, T/TH 2pm
Texas State University has came a long way from handling Students rights of freedom of speech. I believe the San Marcos 10 is just another key point in history to show the power of having the freedom to display your opinions. In the end of the interview the answer to a specific question caught my attention. One of the members answered that this act of freedom of speech will happen again. It is awesome to see now that Texas State has been open towards the rights of the students.Witnessing students express their opinions even though our campus is considered a yellow light campus is amazing to see. If i had the opportunity to express my opinion on a topic that would relate to me i would definitely protest. Protesting is just expressing your idea but in a impactful manner which i highly love to hear people discuss about.
Nathan E. T/TH 2PM
Brianna Z T/Th 2PM
I think its crazy how far Texas State University has come in freedom of speech rights. I do not think the 10 students should have been expelled from school and punished so harshly. If students protested like this today, the end result wouldn't be nearly as bad. I think the students had every right to protest. I am so glad times have changed and I am very lucky I go to a school where freedom of speech is encouraged.
Because Texas State is a public university and the students weren't participating in a sponsored event, the students should not have been punished. Currently, the Quad is an open place of discussion, no matter how radical. The right to peacefully assemble and the right to free speech are essential for the discussion and analysis of ideas. The San Marcos Ten were a peaceful group of students speaking about an important and complicated issue. Colleges should support that kind of critical thinking and discussion rather than punish it.
Sarah B. (Tuesday and Thursday 2pm)
One part of the first video that I really enjoyed was hearing the man, Bill Cunningham, talk about how the free speech issues that take place on our campuses have an impact on our society and the free speech rights of everyone in the country as a whole. I would have to say one thing that would motivate to protest on campus would be if the suppression of speech of conservative/libertarian students or organizations occurred. This has taken place on many campuses across the country and it would be important to me to remind people that conservative students should be able to exercise their right to freedom of speech.
I believe that the school acted unconstitutionally when they suspended the 10 students and gave them a GPA of zero. The school punished them on the technicality of being disruptive to the flow of normal learning activities when in reality they were penalized by the commotion caused by the audience and those around. Texas State University has undoubtedly come a long way with its rules on student protests. There is no shortage of demonstrations taking place, that is for sure. But, the school is still a "yellow card" as mentioned in the video and yet has ways to go.
The way Texas State responded to the protest was shocking...To see how far we have come as a University is actually amazing. Now anyone can stand by the statue in the quad and preach what they believe in and not be expelled for doing so. I couldn't imagine for speaking out in what you believe and all of your college hard work go down the drain. All of their college credits gone, their GPA, and expelled immediately during the time of war. I would have been a mess and thought my life was over and wouldn't know what the next would be.
I personally believe the university was in the wrong and acted unconstitutionally towards their students.
-Maroulia Solis
Michael M (T/Th 2pm)
Whether it be protesting a war or other demonstrations of free expression, Texas State is a breeding ground for people to spread their message and/or cause. If the University were this strict today, 10 suspensions would be applauded. The "San Marcos Ten" had every right to demonstrate their First Amendment right, especially since the school was, and still is, public property. Public properties are considered the public's safe zone to demonstrate. The students got in trouble because of their silent demonstration's negative effect on the school environment. I think that maybe people simply did not agree with protesting the Vietnam War, leading to radical punishment of the "San Marcos Ten". I would consider protesting the punishment of other lawful protests.
T/Th 11am - Alexus Garcia
This is why I LOVE NPR's Archives. The recording of the voices of the protesters will carry on for more and more students and free speech activists to listen to and analyze as we continue to see the interpretation of the first amendment evolve and grow new bearings and meanings in the world.
Optically, such scrutiny of President Johnson coming from his Alma Mater during the Vietnam war doesn't bode well for the university. Nevertheless, it shouldn't be taken into consideration when applying first amendment rights. The San Marcos 10 were right to courageously hold their ground in opposition. I'd like to think that I would have been passionate and brave enough to do the same.
Sierra Wiseman - T/TH 2
As a current Texas State student, I am appalled by the university's actions against the San Marcos 10. I came here from a small, private Christian college. Nothing was more exciting to me than to be able to have freedom of expression. It is hard to imagine a time in America where expression was suppressed, and severely punished. I was also unaware of the fact that we were still a "yellow light" campus. I am proud to walk through the quad and see so many different people and ideas. I am thankful for a school who is more open-minded and nurturing of our rights.
Erika Sanders- 2p.m. class Tues/Thurs
The way Texas State responded to the students protesting is awful. The students are doing nothing but standing up for a topic they believe in.They have every right to peacefully protest against the Vietnam war. As a fellow student, I have been raised to always stand up for what I believe in. I am proud to see how far Texas State has came over the years and see we have a designated spot on campus to express our freedom of speech rights.
Molly J. 11 am TTH
I think that the punishment that these students received for a silent protest was extreme. I think that their first amendment rights were violated. A judge thought that their protest could have caused a disruption to education, and upheld their suspension, while in reality the disruption to education was caused by the dean of students expelling them. I don't think I would ever take part in a protest on school grounds because what can and cannot be punished is in a cloud of grey. I might be inclined to join a protest elsewhere if I feel that it is necessary.
I believe that the students had every right to protest. The San Marcos ten were exercising their first amendment rights of peaceful assembly and speech. I believe that they were unlawfully suspended and expelled from the university. It could not be proven wether the students were disrupting the learning process of the university and should not have been punished. The San Marcos ten were peacefully protesting at a public free speech place. Also the students were not advocating to overthrow the government. The students were silent, therefore the school did not have the right to expel them if they were not advocating for other students to dodge the draft or inflict harm on the government in any way.
After recently watching Ken Burn's "The Vietnam War," I understand a great deal now of the mentality that was sweeping the nation during the era of the Vietnam War. A lot of vocal people during this time were shut down and silenced, but what occurred in the court system helped build upon our rights for freedom of speech.
Seeing this happen to the "Ten" makes me want to help re-establish the ones who didn't graduate with honorary diplomas. I did not know this about our university and, frankly, it sucks. Even though I am too lazy to protest anything, or at least felt the need to protest, I do respect one's right to do so on the Quad.
Texas State should know by now, but to allow this to repeat in future events should be watched closely and debated to as whether or not our constitutional rights are being infringed upon .
Bradley Parks T/TH 2:00pm class
I agree with the majority that the students had the right to protest and should have been protected by the 1st Amendment. It’s very interesting to see how much has changed since the San Marcos Ten. I have witnessed several protest and others using the quad as a free speech zone. Universities should not censor their students from expressing opposing ideas. This case shows how the interpretation of law can change depending on the circumstances of the time.
Alejandro Abundes T/TH 2:00 PM
I think it's easy for me to say, right now, that it seems insane to me that this would have been an issue. That this was allowed to happen to these students. Although the phrasing of the broadcast was obviously meant to lean in favor of the students, it seems kind of obvious, it was clearly against their rights to stop them from protesting, especially since the case against them was so flimsy. To say that they were being suspended not because of the protest itself but because of the ruckus that was being caused by other people seems a little like a grasp at straws, but I was 13 at the time and I remember what was being said and what was expected of everyone to say and how they were supposed to react if anything was said against the status quo. I can imagine it was easy for them to get taken with the storm of patriotism and group think. I think that it's great that we have evolved to a better state, although, not too much better, considering the way people have reacted to current protests like black lives matter is coming for their children or like kneeling during the national anthem killed their grandmother. The entire point of having the right to peacefully protest is to protest an injustice. They weren't saying the same thing when those guys in Oregon forcibly took over government property in protest, which is the opposite of a peaceful protest and is still kind of a felony, but we never hear about what happened to them or their jail time as traitors, but someone knelt in protest during the national anthem and now they want their jobs and worse, because you know the internet and you know the death threats were there. So, that just comes down to who is telling your story and how they're telling it.
That being said, I don't know if I would protest anything because I haven't had anything that i've been so passionate about to go to the extent that some people go to, to champion their cause. I have been a part of marches and short protests for different things, but I don't count those in the wake of other people's more substantial protests. The things I've done are paltry in the face of the protests at standing rock or the wall street protests. I wish I had half the conviction of some of these protestors.
Mariana Zoll
Online Class
So for some reason my first post didn't post. I think its devastating how free speech had a horrible consequence for these Ten. No one should loose out in being able to get an educated because the believe in something and are so passionate about it that they must speak their mind. I remember when I attended Texas State in person, I would see people speak about religion while others protested against it but it was all so physically civil yes people would say bad words hear and their and call other names but its because we have freedom of speech These students deserved to graduate they had every right.
It is crazy to me that these ten students were punished the way they were for peacefully protesting. I absolutely believe this to be against these students First Amendment rights. It is also the fact that they were not just suspended but expelled for expressing their beliefs. However, with all that being said, it is amazing how far Texas State University has come since then. We now have students participating in all sorts of peaceful protests on campus. In my opinion, these students still should have graduated with their fully earned GPA's but thank goodness our university has grown since then.
It is crazy to me that these ten students were punished the way they were for peacefully protesting. I absolutely believe this to be against these students First Amendment rights. It is also the fact that they were not just suspended but expelled for expressing their beliefs. However, with all that being said, it is amazing how far Texas State University has come since then. We now have students participating in all sorts of peaceful protests on campus. In my opinion, these students still should have graduated with their fully earned GPA's but thank goodness our university has grown since then.
Kassidy Moore
T/TH 11 a.m.
I'm pretty surprised how harsh the punishment for the protest was. Expulsion is a ridiculous punishment for a peaceful protest. I'm glad to see though that the University has lightened up when it comes to free speech and protest. Considering the political state we are currently in, I can see my self soon participating in a protest at the Stallions if things keep going the way they are going. However, if the same type of punishment was going to be given to me then that'd be a different story. The thought of silencing yourself from speaking against or for something you believe in out of fear is pretty scary now that I think about it.
Aaron M T/TH 11-12:20
It's very shocking to learn that Texas State punished students so harshly for peaceful protesting. It is completely ridiculous that those students had their GPAs dropped to 0. I am glad that the San Marcos Ten stood for something though and were willing to risk their education to support their opinions. To see the campus allowing more freedom of speech to a certain extent is a good thing. When it comes to protesting myself, I believe if I feel strongly about something and want to make a positive change, I will take part in a protest. Sometimes the best way to change the world is to change the narrative.
Jenise J. T/TH 2-3:20
This is really weird and different to see considering how relaxed and forward thinking our university is now. Nevertheless, it doesn't surprise me knowing that the school took this type of stance considering the time that the demonstration was done. It was a tense and scared time for this nation. Looking at it, I can appreciate the wider boundaries that we as students are able operate in.
In the late 60's and 70's everything was changing especially the youth. The University's back then were clean-cut and conservative. Protesting against a war was considered unpatriotic the people running Southwest Texas State (SWT) were from the past generation (The Greatest Generation). Expelling a person for year is very harsh and if your a male you want to keep being a college student so won't be drafted. Today, Texas State is very pro free speech doesn't matter what side of spectrum your on. University Star (txst news paper) a left leaning paper writes about polarizing topics such as gun control, lack of diverse teachers, and ect.
Michael Rivera. class TH 11 am.
I'm disappointed but not surprised. The Vietnam War was a tumultuous time for free speech, especially for college students whose voices were often the loudest and saw their friends being drafted left and right. The fact that this is a public university that Lyndon Baines Johnson himself graduated from makes this a recipe for the supression of free speech. I could see stopping the protest as an act to protect students because of the other college protests that had turned violent, but the fact that they suspended and expelled these students for expressing their first amendment rights tells me that this was not to prevent violence it was merely to make sure their silent protest went unheard.
I had no idea this had happened here at Texas State, but the fact that it did doesn't completely shock me. This campus is very vocal in many ways, but I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. Looking back at the amount of cases we've gone over during class about protests against the Vietnam War and seeing this proves that it was just simply a very tense and difficult time for everyone that wanted to have any kind of voice at the moment.
Christina Noriega, class TH 2pm
As an orientation leader for the university, I always tell the incoming freshman that the stallion statue as well as the university as a whole promotes free speech. If you want to be heard openly as a person and not as just another Net ID number here on campus, you are able to do so freely. When I heard this story I was legitimately shocked. I didn't know that the university would give such a harsh punishment to these ten who were protesting peacefully. I think that decision was just too extreme. I see the protests about immigration, gay rights, abortion and all of these other controversial topics happening now and people combating those ideas verbally and aggressively. However, in the end, there is a peaceful resolution of silence and mutual respect between the students after it all ends. I wish this incident ended like that. My heart is very sad hearing their punishment for expressing themselves freely.
Wow crazy to see how the administration would be so anti 1st amendment. I can't imagine that getting expelled for peacefully and silently protesting something. I hope the university has since re-payed them to someway since then. I'll look at the Stallion a little differently now.
I find it surprising and strange how strict Texas State used to be in regards to their student's exercising free speech. The school went as far as expelling the students who took part. I feel that was a bit excessive and I was saddened to see the student's trials were not overturned or at the very least being reinstated. Today I see student's gathering around the stallion to express their ideas freely, honestly and unbothered. Granted there are a few people that take it too far by screaming at each other, but hey, free speech right?
Alex S
To see where we once were and how far we've come is beyond interesting. Protests are supposed to spread ideas into the world and once those ideas are out there it's up to individuals to accept or deny those ideas. And while certain issues may offend and make people uncomfortable, it's that discomfort that leads to genuine discussion about important societal and cultural issues. The time we live in now seems upside down at times and at times but somewhere in all the nonsense that genuine discussion is happening. Punishing people for expressing different points of views doesn't solve issues, it just allows them to fester.
Hugo Garcia T/H 2PM
My reaction to this was quit appalling espically coming from Texas State. The way the administration handled these protests during the Vietnam War would not Work well here. First off knowing the current political environment, especially after elections and 9/11 these reactions would not be welcomed. Our diverse population here at Texas State would not be well reacted. Actually I feel like both left and right students would not welcome a suspension and 0 GPA's just for protesting. If for whatever reason these sort of reaction made from these old protest back from Southwest Texas State happened now, you would best believe I would join in.
It would have been awesome if the problems these students had faced would have reached the Supreme Court. Hopefully, they would have gotten the outcome they wanted and the USSC would have let them peaceful protest. It's unfortunate they had their education credits messed with.
T/TH 2PM
It's shocking to see how the courts interpret the constitution in this case. There must have been a major govt. interest to keep ideas against the draft silent. Its interesting to look at what the students were charged with... "disrupting the flow of education."
I think it's important to for young people to stand up for what they believe in. However, most are not motivated to go out of their way to protest.
Wesley H. TH 2pm
It is amazing to me that so much has changed within a lifetime. The way free speech has been practiced seems to stay the same, nonviolent and productive. The way free speech situations have been handled by authorities and administrators has changed drastically and shaped to free society we enjoy today.
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